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Sustainability - Thermal Update


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2 minutes ago, Fatmice said:

Slimes should work, if you can keep Puffs alive.

If the numbers people have been posting are indeed correct, slime to contaminated water will not produce the amount of contaminated water to keep dupes alive.  In addition, unless something changed, pufts can quite easily die due to temperature issues.

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There has been a change with slimers conversion.  It was 300g/s, now it said 3000 mg/s.   Clearly unless my eyes need new glasses, the tool tip flat out lies, or that is the direction to go.  I'm fairly sleepy at the moment, but will revisit this slimes again later today.

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I made a topic about this earlier, however the only way to infinite sustain food is with the mealwood bug atm. Harvest the first 2 cycles then dig up the mealwood before the the third harvest. You get the seed back. So still possible, but only via bug.

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4 minutes ago, Fatmice said:

There has been a change with slimers conversion.  It was 300g/s, now it said 3000 mg/s.   Clearly unless my eyes need new glasses, the tool tip flat out lies, or that is the direction to go.  I'm fairly sleepy at the moment, but will revisit this slimes again later today.

Nope it very clearly runs forever. Actually have to put it on its own network there is so much output now.
 

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4 minutes ago, Fatmice said:

There has been a change with slimers conversion.  It was 300g/s, now it said 3000 mg/s.   Clearly unless my eyes need new glasses, the tool tip flat out lies, or that is the direction to go.  I'm fairly sleepy at the moment, but will revisit this slimes again later today.

If it is indeed a ten fold increase then you "only" need about 8 Pufts per dupe. Otherwise it's about 80.

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2 minutes ago, gopuri said:

I made a topic about this earlier, however the only way to infinite sustain food is with the mealwood bug atm. Harvest the first 2 cycles then dig up the mealwood before the the third harvest. You get the seed back. So still possible, but only via bug.

And I've already mentioned, in this thread, that said issue has been reported as a bug.

I would say that even if you cannot maintain an endless colony under the existing mechanics that isn't really a bad thing for gameplay.  I've always felt the experience is one of constant attempts to do a bit better the next time and this suits that style.

As future updates come out, I expect we'll see additional resources that can be used towards sustaining and the developers have stated that eventually they will have a method to sustain indefinitely.  What that is, we don't know yet.

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Ok. Let me share the slaughter house idea then. So you can shoot it down.

It takes a dupe 3½ cycles to die of starvation by my observations. So every time you print a new dupe you have a surplus of dupes.

What you need is extra power and polluted water to achieve sustainability. So enclose the printing pod area with no access to food. There will be hamster wheels, and maybe cots. That's it.

They will run on the hamster wheels to produce power. So you definitely want to stay away from anemic dupes.

You want them to produce as much polluted water as possible so vomiters, small bladders and especially biohazards are preferred.

You use the power generated by the "slaves" along with power generated by your "masters" to make fertilizer out of the contaminated water. It may be necessary to have lavatories and showers fed by water from a geyer cooled by a wheezewort as that produces a little excess polluted water rather than just having them go on the floor.

When the dupes die, let them rot and spawn morbs. This makes sure that decor is so poor that even in 3½ rounds they will probably puke at least once. The "masters" should have no decor either and should preferably be at 100% stress at all times to maximize puking.

The spawned morbs supply the base with relatively cool O2(p) that requires a minimum of cooling for the Bristle Blossoms.

It goes without saying that sweeping and moping is banned anywhere.

I fear that calculations will show that no matter what we do to maximize the vomit comet, it's not going to be enough H2O(p).

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5 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Ok. Let me share the slaughter house idea then. So you can shoot it down.

It takes a dupe 3½ cycles to die of starvation by my observations. So every time you print a new dupe you have a surplus of dupes.

What you need is extra power and polluted water to achieve sustainability. So enclose the printing pod area with no access to food. There will be hamster wheels, and maybe cots. That's it.

They will run on the hamster wheels to produce power. So you definitely want to stay away from anemic dupes.

You want them to produce as much polluted water as possible so vomiters, small bladders and especially biohazards are preferred.

You use the power generated by the "slaves" along with power generated by your "masters" to make fertilizer out of the contaminated water. It may be necessary to have lavatories and showers fed by water from a geyer cooled by a wheezewort as that produces a little excess polluted water rather than just having them go on the floor.

When the dupes die, let them rot and spawn morbs. This makes sure that decor is so poor that even in 3½ rounds they will probably puke at least once. The "masters" should have no decor either and should preferably be at 100% stress at all times to maximize puking.

The spawned morbs supply the base with relatively cool O2(p) that requires a minimum of cooling for the Bristle Blossoms.

It goes without saying that sweeping and moping is banned anywhere.

So like basically something akin to your typical pre-thermal update colonies.  lol.

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5 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Yeah. :D Just with the added cruelty of working the dupes to death while they starve.

Can't accept any destructive guys though. They will break the manual generator which actually needs materials for repairs now.
 

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I'll be honest I actually laughed out loud reading this concept. There has been a lot of 'jail bases' floated around, but this one is hitting an all new level of depravity and cruelty. This is the type of thing that should be immortalised in an Let's Play ala some Dwarf Fortress bases. You are literally having slaves be printed who's only purpose in their (short) remaining life is to generate power to sustain their cruel overlords (who are vomiting on top of them) as they wade through the bodies of the fallen who came before them, and battling the horrors (Morbs) that come to feast on the ever growing pile of bodies.

To be honest though, as much as I hate to suggest anything that makes this less hilarious, you could probably solve the power problem via using Electrolysers powered via steam vents (assuming they generate enough per ejection to make this sustainable) to generate hydrogen to power generators (and you would have all the oxygen you could ever want as a 'waste' product).

Edit: That suggestion does assume the bugs with losing gas mass in pipes are all actually fixed, else you would lose too much efficiency to actually gain power.

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3 minutes ago, Troxism said:

Edit: That suggestion does assume the bugs with losing gas mass in pipes are all actually fixed, else you would lose too much efficiency to actually gain power.

I honestly haven't found any bugs yet. The only mass loss I can find is letting liquids flow too much, which is apparently intended by what the devs have said.
 

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If you guys are looking for a fully sustainable farm, without exploiting a bug, then the obvious choice is to let the bristle blossom grow on a tile that is not a planter box.  How to manage this?  It will take a very long time to set up, and will only support a small dupe population due to the amount of space it will require.  First step is to prohibit every storage bin from storing seeds, and then place a new bin on the natural ground tile where you want the bristle blossom to grow.  Store the seed in the bin, empty the bin and deconstruct it.  Never sweep the area, and wait until the seed begins its growth cycle before you place the next one.

Keep in mind that it takes 5-7 cycles for the seed to even start to grow on its own, and the growth of plants outside of planter boxes is significantly slower.  I found that before the plant reaches maturity for the first time, the progression is like ... 3% per day.  You will have to triple your bristle blossom count in order to sustain your colony if you grow them without the planter boxes, but you will never have to worry about fertilizer once it is completely set up.

The best way to get the blossom seeds you need for this project is to begin by placing them in planter boxes once farming technology is researched, and make a priority to propagate the seeds that you can collect when the dupes eat the fruit.

I started a new colony the minute I figured out how to do this, and I haven't finished my farm yet (actually I have barely begun, the prototype build had 4 working blossoms before I restarted).  I wish I could give you better numbers, but they will come in due time.

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15 minutes ago, Troxism said:

What do you mean by flowing too much? Do you mean like letting water fall down 'stairs', or do you mean pumping too much into a pipe?

Flowing down stairs or across a huge flat plain yes.
 

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8 minutes ago, clamjam said:

If you guys are looking for a fully sustainable farm, without exploiting a bug, then the obvious choice is to let the bristle blossom grow on a tile that is not a planter box.  How to manage this?  It will take a very long time to set up, and will only support a small dupe population due to the amount of space it will require.  First step is to prohibit every storage bin from storing seeds, and then place a new bin on the natural ground tile where you want the bristle blossom to grow.  Store the seed in the bin, empty the bin and deconstruct it.  Never sweep the area, and wait until the seed begins its growth cycle before you place the next one.

Keep in mind that it takes 5-7 cycles for the seed to grow on its own, and the growth of plants outside of planter boxes is significantly slower.  I found that before the plant reaches maturity for the first time, the progression is like ... 3% per day.  You will have to triple your bristle blossom count in order to sustain your colony if you grow them without the planter boxes, but you will never have to worry about fertilizer once it is completely set up.

The best way to get the blossom seeds you need for this project is to begin by placing them in planter boxes once farming technology is researched, and make a priority to propagate the seeds that you can collect when the dupes eat the fruit.

I started a new colony the minute I figured out how to do this, and I haven't finished my farm yet (actually I have barely begun, the prototype build had 4 working blossoms before I restarted).  I wish I could give you better numbers, but they will come in due time.

If you really want to you can actually plant it where ever you like as you can make natural soil. Have a storage compactor to store sand on top of a horizontal airlock. When one bunch of sand is collect, empty the container and let it drop, do the same again, and there will be a ball of sand. That is enough to plant in so now you just need to do the same with the seed.

Darn. Seems the game does not like my cruel builds :D

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3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

[...]
EDIT: I can think of one way though. Set calorie intake to 600 per day and let your dupes die slowly, and keep accepting replacements. You just need to set it so one dupe dies every 3rd cycle, and hey presto... "sustainability achieved" LOL
[...]

I wouldn't call that "sustainability" since Dupes are supposed to be colonists.

Right now, I see it as a game where we have "disposable material" (Dupes) to help us create a new viable environment: if at best you have to replace them on a regular basis to maintain some sort of balance (because of food/oxygen issue), then it's not really sustainable :)

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