Griefers/trolls have a weird logic

[56933043043]

12 hours ago, The Curator said:

Arguing about destructive behavior in the human species is like shouting at disease to make it stop spreading. The only real thing you can criticize logically is your doctor for not treating it properly. Which in this scenario, is the abysmal voting system.

Spam rollback because they died and want a retry.

Spam regeneration because they want to make it their world.

Spam kick because they want to get rid of people not in their group.

 

 

Klei made an effort to limit griefing without compromising much of the game --- but griefers still found a way around it. Before, your best bet was to kill the griefer, in a server where PvP was likely off. Even if you suceeded, they could still grief as ghosts(haunting items, sanity drain). Votekicking allowed players to get rid of them for good, vote for a rollback to reverse their damage. It's unfortunately exploitable, but that's because it's accessible to anyone that wants to try to improve their play experience on a public server. If it was more rigid and less abusable, it would not be as accessible.

 

35 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

Plus, no, burning a bunch of trees, where there are no flammable structures affected would not make it difficult. You could still burn down parts of a forest like you normally do and burn away some ashes safely like you always do without a hassle, so I don't know what your problem is in terms of that. Charcoal and ashes would still be easy to obtain.

A tree is a structure, to me --- though meant to be harvested, burning them deprives us of their most important resource --- wood. Following your idea:

5 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

* Players can't set fire to structures.

* Players can't set fire to anything flammable that would cause a chain reaction to burn down a flammable structure.

 

No charcoal.
 

 

[Cyberboy2000]

6 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I already told everyone on the thread that I have come up with a solution, so stop blahbouring the "oh, there's no way to fix that1!!1!!" nonsense. Here's the mechanics needed:

* Players can't set fire to structures.

* Players can't set fire to anything flammable that would cause a chain reaction to burn down a flammable structure.

* Players can't drop a flammable item next to anything that is on fire, smoldering or in chain reaction to a flammable structure.

* Players can't attack using fire staff, fire dart, torch or a lighter if doing so will cause a flammable structure to be set on fire, will cause a chain reaction of fire that will essentially reach a flammable structure or is within a certain tile radius from a flammable structure (this radius being dependent on the speed and size of the creature itself, so Bearger and Pigs would both probably have larger radius than Spider Queens).

Anything in terms of wild fire smoldering, fire hounds, lavae or Dragonfly is would not be affected as those are intended to be problematic and there's little to no difference quite often when these things set fire to bases between those who are inexperienced and don't know what they're doing or those who simply want to burn down everything. Perhaps a setting to turn griefing protection on and off could do well too since there's disagreement on these mechanics.

That is all in terms of fire itself. Hammering is an entirely different issue and I'm still thinking about how that could be stopped completely or extremely effectively, because unlike burning down structures, you DO want to hammer all kinds of structures at times as a genuine player.

But what if I REEAAAALLY want to make charcoal or ash without leaving the base? (and is willing to use hands/ice staff/rebuilding burned structures)

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

14 hours ago, Sketched_Philo said:

A tree is a structure, to me --- though meant to be harvested, burning them deprives us of their most important resource --- wood. Following your idea:

No charcoal.
 

 

To YOU, not to the game. Seriously, since when has a tree ever been a structure and how could you possibly think of it as one? You have problems, man, real problems...

Anyway, according to the GAME CODE, it's not a structure, THEREFORE the game will let you burn it, THEREFORE charcoal. End of.

And what? Burning them deprives us of wood... Yeah, and? It's not like these things don't respawn on their own and are in hundreds around both caves and the overworld. Heck, even the mushtrees resapawn now, so what is your deal here?

13 hours ago, Cyberboy2000 said:

But what if I REEAAAALLY want to make charcoal or ash without leaving the base? (and is willing to use hands/ice staff/rebuilding burned structures)

Don't troll please. You can set up a chunk of trees to burn right next to your base and burn it. That's what I did just yesterday and based on the mechanics I described you would still be able to do this since it would to never reach any structures.

And again, all of these anti-griefing mechanics could be set up to be optional, just like vote-kicking actually is, or movement prediction is. Whether or not they're set up by default on official servers could be based on observation of how well the mechanic works out, but other than that, what's the issue here?

[JohnWatson]

Instead of going "these griefers are just bad players" or "oh i want these griefers dead irl haha", just don't think of them at all. Having to make yourself seem better than they are doesn't make you any better than them. You are just proving they they have affected you in some way. You have proven that they have succeeded because their actions have had an effect on you.

[fimmatek]

I agree that there should (could?...) be a better solution than voting, because it's far from ideal. However, developing (and then coding) such a system would require quite a lot time and I'm sure griefers would find a way to destroy the base, it would be just more difficult. And in most cases this voting system still works, even if we don't hear about it often. (Of course, people come to the forums complaining when it failed, not when it was useful.)

The idea not being able to burn structures and stuff in base could be useful on non-moderated public servers, I admit, but it would feel so... strange. It wouldn't fit the game in my opinion. (Even if logic and reality are not the game's strength... :P) It could be a nice mod, but I'd rather stay at the current voting system in the vanilla game instead of this fire prevention.

15 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

It could probably make sense, if quotes of morals were attached to players, like "lighting this on fire would burn a crafted structure down"

I can imagine Willow saying that...

[56933043043]

19 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

To YOU, not to the game. Seriously, since when has a tree ever been a structure and how could you possibly think of it as one? You have problems, man, real problems...

Anyway, according to the GAME CODE, it's not a structure, THEREFORE the game will let you burn it, THEREFORE charcoal. End of.

And what? Burning them deprives us of wood... Yeah, and? It's not like these things don't respawn on their own and are in hundreds around both caves and the overworld. Heck, even the mushtrees resapawn now, so what is your deal here?

Don't troll please. You can set up a chunk of trees to burn right next to your base and burn it. That's what I did just yesterday and based on the mechanics I described you would still be able to do this since it would to never reach any structures.

Since world regrowth is part of the default world generation settings, I agree with you here.

I'm well aware that trees aren't structures in the game's code. Saplings, grass tufts, and reed plants aren't structures either, but they'd be worth including in a list of "items to keep far from stray fires always", especially since the last isn't restored by world regrowth.

[voyager156]

37 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Instead of going "these griefers are just bad players" or "oh i want these griefers dead irl haha", just don't think of them at all. Having to make yourself seem better than they are doesn't make you any better than them. You are just proving they they have affected you in some way. You have proven that they have succeeded because their actions have had an effect on you.

I couldn't agree more

Inventing an elaborate plans to prevent future griefing is in reality a proof, how much griefers really "hurt" you...

Just play on servers with admins - and problem solved.

[Asparagus]

3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Instead of going "these griefers are just bad players" or "oh i want these griefers dead irl haha", just don't think of them at all. Having to make yourself seem better than they are doesn't make you any better than them. You are just proving they they have affected you in some way. You have proven that they have succeeded because their actions have had an effect on you.

hmm... so I would imagine the silent treatment against greifers... like if someone had been found to be greifing, everyone leaves the server so they get isolated and get the feeling of being rejected... you go to their profile and take note of them and once you see them in a server, just leave... then they either (1) get depressed and change, (2) get depressed and kill themselves because they may just be lonely and troubled and don't have an outlet , (3) escalate their behavior and become serial killers due to the aforementioned family or self-esteem issues, (5) apologize and become a good internet friend which will also make them reformed and respectable members of society, or...

Umm... hmm... I mean... yeah, just uhh... don't... uh... mind what they do and just move on? V(O__O)V

[voyager156]

55 minutes ago, Asparagus said:

Hmm... so I would imagine the silent treatment against greifers... like if someone had been found to be greifing, everyone leaves the server so they get isolated and get the feeling of being rejected... you go to their profile and take note of them and once you see them in a server, just leave... then they either (1) get depressed and change, (2) get depressed and kill themselves because they may just be lonely and troubled and don't have an outlet , (3) escalate their behavior and become serial killers due to the aforementioned family or self-esteem issues, (5) apologize and become a good internet friend which will also make them reformed and respectable members of society, or...

Umm... hmm... I mean... yeah, just uhh... don't... uh... mind what they do and just move on? V(O__O)V

You completely missed the point of what I was saying...

[brbrmensch]

anything related to restricting burning structures is considered non-canon, i have proofs

[Asparagus]

1 hour ago, voyager156 said:

You completely missed the point of what I was saying...

...

OMG I quoted the wrong post XD

3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Instead of going "these griefers are just bad players" or "oh i want these griefers dead irl haha", just don't think of them at all. Having to make yourself seem better than they are doesn't make you any better than them. You are just proving they they have affected you in some way. You have proven that they have succeeded because their actions have had an effect on you.

I mean to quote this ^^ XD

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

3 hours ago, fimmatek said:

I agree that there should (could?...) be a better solution than voting, because it's far from ideal. However, developing (and then coding) such a system would require quite a lot time and I'm sure griefers would find a way to destroy the base, it would be just more difficult. And in most cases this voting system still works, even if we don't hear about it often. (Of course, people come to the forums complaining when it failed, not when it was useful.)

The idea not being able to burn structures and stuff in base could be useful on non-moderated public servers, I admit, but it would feel so... strange. It wouldn't fit the game in my opinion. (Even if logic and reality are not the game's strength... :P) It could be a nice mod, but I'd rather stay at the current voting system in the vanilla game instead of this fire prevention.

I can imagine Willow saying that...

Nah, Willow would probably say something along the lines of "If I burn it all down now, there will be nothing to burn later"

Sometimes things need to be done, even if they feel out of place. I personally wouldn't feel that it would be out of place. No sane player intentionally wants to burn down structures anyway (usually, I know a scenario where I'd argue it would be kind of justified), so why allow iy in the first place? Besides, having the OPTION to switch it on and off, just like the voting system would make it fine. It's probably why we don't hear even more complaints about the system; because people host and possibly even try to avoid servers that have the option on.

[LuxuryHeart]

4 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Instead of going "these griefers are just bad players" or "oh i want these griefers dead irl haha", just don't think of them at all. Having to make yourself seem better than they are doesn't make you any better than them.  You are just proving they they have affected you in some way. You have proven that they have succeeded because their actions have had an effect on you.

At BEST griefers are dumb, at worst they are bad.  If you willfully do things to annoy people and make them angry, then you're pretty bad man.

Calling out bad or stupid behavior doesn't make the person who's calling out the behavior as bad as them, unless they're a hypocrite, it just means they're complaining.  

Or...  You're just ranting.

Seriously, what kind of apologist BS is this?  "You see that person over there trolling?  Just ignore them.  Maybe they'll pick another target."

[JohnWatson]

58 minutes ago, LuxuryHeart said:

At BEST griefers are dumb, at wors they are bad.  If you willfully do things to annoy people and make them angry, then you're pretty bad man.

Calling out bad or stupid behavior doesn't make the person who's calling out the behavior as bad as them, unless they're a hypocrite, it just means they're complaining.  

Or...  You're just ranting.

Seriously, what kind of apologist BS is this?  "You see that person over there trolling?  Just ignore them.  Maybe they'll pick another target."

Surely complaining on the forums about griefers will solve anything.

You're just making yourself feel worse by insulting griefers. You don't win in this situation at all.

[LuxuryHeart]

On 3/16/2017 at 11:41 AM, JohnWatson said:

Surely complaining on the forums about griefers will solve anything.

You're just making yourself feel worse by insulting griefers. You don't win in this situation at all.

Never said it would solve anything.

I actually feel better insulting griefers and making fun of them.  Thanks for the concern though.

Now which game do you troll in your spare time?