LuxuryHeart

Griefers/trolls have a weird logic

40 posts in this topic

The average troll on Don't Starve online

I set your base on fire that consists of only a Science Machine, Alchemy Engine and one treasure chest!  HAHAHAHAHA!

7ea2b283098910e907afe35d1ff5f052_im-so-e

Really?  I literally have a hammer and can salvage some of it, and they are all super easy to make.  You didn't do any hardcore trolling nor did you even make people mad.  That actually didn't even do much damage other than cause a mild annoyance of getting the supplies, but we were by a rock and gold area so...

Listen...  Griefing and trolling in Don't Starve of all games is pretty useless because most people are hardly at their base and they don't just have one.  You're burning down a base by the portal, but that's a base for newcomers to stay for a while until they want to create their own base.  Your trolling will only cause a mild annoyance for the most part.  Though if you really want to troll at this game, then you should probably set it to Summer or Winter where the base will be bigger and it will be more of a pain to repair while trying to survive.  At least do that.  Don't come in a game at day 5 and burn down a freaking Alchemy Engine and Science machine expecting people to rage at you.  

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Posted (edited)

The fact you are here posting this pretty much proves that on some level, their harassment did effect you in the intended manner. Just instead of the act itself bothering you, the semantics behind that act bothered you.

Arguing about destructive behavior in the human species is like shouting at disease to make it stop spreading. The only real thing you can criticize logically is your doctor for not treating it properly. Which in this scenario, is the abysmal voting system.

Spam rollback because they died and want a retry.

Spam regeneration because they want to make it their world.

Spam kick because they want to get rid of people not in their group.

 

Absolutely zero effort put into limiting exploitation. How about they at least make it so you cannot set player objects on fire directly in official servers. At no point will you ever want to do it willingly, if the feature was removed in public servers at least miscreants would need to try to cause havoc. Instead of only needing a torch.

Edited by The Curator

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A proper troll tries to abuse vote kick... on a server that has no vote kicking enabled :p

Nah, vote kicking being disabled and just roll-backing while an admin is online simply makes all griefing dumbly useless. I once caught a griefer red-handed as they planted a spider nest at portal while there was an ocuvigil set up XD

Most of the time griefers are just wasting their time, although that's like 90% of the time, I would say. That 10% really does kick in very hard and that's really where the vote kick is enabled but roll-backing can't be done because an admin isn't online.

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I don't mind 'cause I love that meme. However I've also seen trolls either plant a spider nest right on the portal or walling in the portal so that new/inexperienced players can't even get started

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51 minutes ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

 

@The Curator I really would rather they didn't limit the actual mechanics of how the game works because of a few bad apples. Sadly there will always be ways to break things unless Klei creates a new system that is capable of recognizing the owner of objects and structures and disallows anyone but that owner to mess with those structures (which hinders co-op greatly and causes many QOL problems for people playing together), or completely remove the ability for friendly structures to burn / smolder AND prevent people from hammering structures, but this as well would cause issues so I think its better just to deal with the trolls and to learn that if there are things important to you on a public server it's necessary to hide yourself appropriately and learn who to trust through time, or play in a server where you know and trust the other individuals to play seriously.

Absolutely disagree. There are smart ways of dealing with griefing. While I'm still trying to think of a good method for preventing the issue of hammering, the burning one is something I've already thought of some good mechanics for and have told endless times. There are a number of things you can do in the game, it's not virtually infinite. Taking that into account, mechanics can be implemented to deal with griefing issues, however you must be smart with them. Seeing as Klei doesn't seem to care too much about that and neither does the community at large... I'm just baffled, because it allows for dealing with simple problems very easily without having to use cheaty methods AND will save admins a LOT of trouble, since the griefing prevention will be automated by the game itself.

Seriously, what is it with some of the people here and being so salty when it comes to automation, be it griefing or late-game resource collection? Do you like grinding and keeping an eye on every-player-you-don't-trust rather than simply enjoying the game? You know, kind of like single player did back when you were relatively a newbie?

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1 hour ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

 

@The Curator I really would rather they didn't limit the actual mechanics of how the game works because of a few bad apples.

The game mechanic in question is never used. Setting fire to your own objects. No, not really. It exists because the game functions openly, there is no excuse for them to leave it in the multiplayer when it is a blatant meta for harassment. It serves no actual purpose in the game.

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Posted (edited)

47 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Are you by any chance this guy:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

light-yagami.jpg

 

 

Hmm, a gamemode in which everybody spawns in a random location and one of the players is Kira, who can only see the name of the other person that has their face visible could be cool.

Names would be generated on player join and would override username. Everybody comes with a paper bag, equippable on their head. It has limited usage though, and can't be crafted.

After some time Kira would be able to craft Slurpers or something. That way, he could unequip hats of other players.

The game could see the in-game chat and would delete messages containing possible player names, to prevent griefing.

The game would end after the Notebook is burnt or destroyed. Well, it could also be stolen. Kira can use the Notebook only when it's out of the inventory, just like Maxwell his Codex.

Then everybody respawns and a new Kira is chosen.

Still, there would have to be a lot of names. Or the usernames could be kept original, but that would create other problems. Hm.

2manyideas2littletime

---

Back to the topic... Play only on the servers that admins are on or make a server that only people on your friend list can join.

Or play on non-moderated servers and never make a base. Only way to enjoy the game there is the nomad way.

Edited by PanAzej
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1 hour ago, The Curator said:

The game mechanic in question is never used. Setting fire to your own objects. No, not really. It exists because the game functions openly, there is no excuse for them to leave it in the multiplayer when it is a blatant meta for harassment. It serves no actual purpose in the game.

There's no point in removing it, because then instead of people setting fire to structures, they'll just throw a twig down and set THAT on fire so it starts a chain reaction. There's no way to fix this unless they removed fire entirely, and nobody wants that.

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, JellyUltra said:

There's no point in removing it, because then instead of people setting fire to structures, they'll just throw a twig down and set THAT on fire so it starts a chain reaction. There's no way to fix this unless they removed fire entirely, and nobody wants that.

I already told everyone on the thread that I have come up with a solution, so stop blahbouring the "oh, there's no way to fix that1!!1!!" nonsense. Here's the mechanics needed:

* Players can't set fire to structures.

* Players can't set fire to anything flammable that would cause a chain reaction to burn down a flammable structure.

* Players can't drop a flammable item next to anything that is on fire, smoldering or in chain reaction to a flammable structure.

* Players can't attack using fire staff, fire dart, torch or a lighter if doing so will cause a flammable structure to be set on fire, will cause a chain reaction of fire that will essentially reach a flammable structure or is within a certain tile radius from a flammable structure (this radius being dependent on the speed and size of the creature itself, so Bearger and Pigs would both probably have larger radius than Spider Queens).

Anything in terms of wild fire smoldering, fire hounds, lavae or Dragonfly is would not be affected as those are intended to be problematic and there's little to no difference quite often when these things set fire to bases between those who are inexperienced and don't know what they're doing or those who simply want to burn down everything. Perhaps a setting to turn griefing protection on and off could do well too since there's disagreement on these mechanics.

That is all in terms of fire itself. Hammering is an entirely different issue and I'm still thinking about how that could be stopped completely or extremely effectively, because unlike burning down structures, you DO want to hammer all kinds of structures at times as a genuine player.

Edited by EuedeAdodooedoe

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1 hour ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

I already told everyone on the thread that I have come up with a solution, so stop blahbouring the "oh, there's no way to fix that1!!1!!" nonsense. Here's the mechanics needed:

* Players can't set fire to structures.

* Players can't set fire to anything flammable that would cause a chain reaction to burn down a flammable structure.

* Players can't drop a flammable item next to anything that is on fire, smoldering or in chain reaction to a flammable structure.

* Players can't attack using fire staff, fire dart, torch or a lighter if doing so will cause a flammable structure to be set on fire, will cause a chain reaction of fire that will essentially reach a flammable structure or is within a certain tile radius from a flammable structure (this radius being dependent on the speed and size of the creature itself, so Bearger and Pigs would both probably have larger radius than Spider Queens).

Anything in terms of wild fire smoldering, fire hounds, lavae or Dragonfly is would not be affected as those are intended to be problematic and there's little to no difference quite often when these things set fire to bases between those who are inexperienced and don't know what they're doing or those who simply want to burn down everything. Perhaps a setting to turn griefing protection on and off could do well too since there's disagreement on these mechanics.

That is all in terms of fire itself. Hammering is an entirely different issue and I'm still thinking about how that could be stopped completely or extremely effectively, because unlike burning down structures, you DO want to hammer all kinds of structures at times as a genuine player.

i'm very much against trolling but there is absolutely no reason that these crazy restrictions should be in place. The issue we have isn't so serious that you are guaranteed to have a greifer experience no matter when you play. If anyone actually cared that deeply about their things that they would be willing to go to such limits to use these features you suggest, they would be better off playing with people they trust. The realism of a game is gone when you make so many things break immersion like this, and generally everything will just seem stale when you're using a fire weapons on a mob and it rarely or never lights enemies on fire when you actually want it too, or you're trying to light some useless items on fire for ashes and theres hundreds of reasons why you can't light it wherever you're currently standing. Also, just thinking about writing the logic for the game to recognize that a hound I hit with a torch should not ever be lit on fire for the 1% possibility it could just book it straight for a pig house or a lone science machine sounds like a huge headache. 

All of this, just because some people who most likely won't play the game after a couple of days of on and off being idiots? Sure some will come and go but we have to realize with the silence of Klei on this issue that there is most likely not going to be much done about this. I implore you to make a mod or find someone to help you make this mod for this if you are so dead certain it is required in order for you to enjoy the game.

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13 minutes ago, JellyUltra said:

Can you imagine how bad the game would run if, every time you used a fire staff or torch, the game had to check to make sure that there are no structures nearby, there are no items that can possibly spread fire to structures nearby, there's no possible way that a flaming mob could run that would set structures on fire, and that there's no way a flaming mob could run into an item that eventually sets a structure on fire.

Could I take down servers by setting up hundreds of cut grass in a way that would eventually set fire to a structure? The game would have to check if a fire could spread to a structure for every single piece of grass.

Crash the game with 3-5 stacks of grass, lol.

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7 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

A proper troll tries to abuse vote kick... on a server that has no vote kicking enabled :p

Nah, vote kicking being disabled and just roll-backing while an admin is online simply makes all griefing dumbly useless. I once caught a griefer red-handed as they planted a spider nest at portal while there was an ocuvigil set up XD

Most of the time griefers are just wasting their time, although that's like 90% of the time, I would say. That 10% really does kick in very hard and that's really where the vote kick is enabled but roll-backing can't be done because an admin isn't online.

I agree.  The only time a griefer would really piss me off would be during the Winter when I'm trying to prepare for the Deerclops and keeping warm, and during the Spring when my base is super big.  Summer would kind of affect me, but I'm usually in the caves to avoid overheating so I probably won't know until Summer is over.

At any rate, trolling on day 5 is just dumb.  They burned down a Science Machine and Alchemy Engine that the host made.  I literally just hammered them and spent like 2 minutes gathering supplies to rebuild them.

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9 hours ago, The Curator said:

The fact you are here posting this pretty much proves that on some level, their harassment did effect you in the intended manner. Just instead of the act itself bothering you, the semantics behind that act bothered you.

Arguing about destructive behavior in the human species is like shouting at disease to make it stop spreading. The only real thing you can criticize logically is your doctor for not treating it properly. Which in this scenario, is the abysmal voting system.

Spam rollback because they died and want a retry.

Spam regeneration because they want to make it their world.

Spam kick because they want to get rid of people not in their group.

 

Absolutely zero effort put into limiting exploitation. How about they at least make it so you cannot set player objects on fire directly in official servers. At no point will you ever want to do it willingly, if the feature was removed in public servers at least miscreants would need to try to cause havoc. Instead of only needing a torch.

Not really.  It was just confusing and I had to ask.  

It was literally day 5.  I just hammered the burnt things and spent like 2 or 3 minutes rebuilding.  Everyone else on the server didn't even notice and barely flinched to be honest.  

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7 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

I don't mind 'cause I love that meme. However I've also seen trolls either plant a spider nest right on the portal or walling in the portal so that new/inexperienced players can't even get started

That one has a better effect of annoying people than burning an alchemy and science machine.  Though even then, the players that are on the server can just knock it down, though it will effect more people.

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6 hours ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

You gotta realize OP, that the majority of people who do grief have more than likely never played the game seriously past the first season and therefore have no concept of what is and isn't difficult to do for experienced players. If I were you, I would be more happy that someone was willing to expose themselves so soon before you got more invested into your base because like you said, if it was just three or four basic structures it could've been much worse.

@The Curator I really would rather they didn't limit the actual mechanics of how the game works because of a few bad apples. Sadly there will always be ways to break things unless Klei creates a new system that is capable of recognizing the owner of objects and structures and disallows anyone but that owner to mess with those structures (which hinders co-op greatly and causes many QOL problems for people playing together), or completely remove the ability for friendly structures to burn / smolder AND prevent people from hammering structures, but this as well would cause issues so I think its better just to deal with the trolls and to learn that if there are things important to you on a public server it's necessary to hide yourself appropriately and learn who to trust through time, or play in a server where you know and trust the other individuals to play seriously.

True.  You have to have experience at EVERY game before you truly troll.  You need to know what's hard to do, what really sucks and makes people angry, etc.

Honestly, I didn't even build the base.  The host actually built it, but I just added some items in the chest like 2 silks, axes/pickaxes, and Nitre.  Those items didn't even burn anyway and we went back to normal.

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To those that say it's pointless: It's automated, saving a lot of hassle in the off-chance that proper griefers do come around. And it "making sense"... why would anything make sense in the game? It could probably make sense, if quotes of morals were attached to players, like "lighting this on fire would burn a crafted structure down" or something along the lines. Remember that I'm thinking about public, unmanaged servers here, who could really do with these kinds of mechanics. And the public servers are and will stay the core way of playing the game for many people, so instead of trying to tell people to simply not play like that, how about something being done with it? And yes, if it turns out Klei really doesn't want to bother with it, I will try to make a mod out of it. The chain-reaction detection would be the hardest part. And it might be that the checks are done on client-side instead, so even if some lag is initiated in a highly flammable item area, it wouldn't affect everyone.

Plus, no, burning a bunch of trees, where there are no flammable structures affected would not make it difficult. You could still burn down parts of a forest like you normally do and burn away some ashes safely like you always do without a hassle, so I don't know what your problem is in terms of that. Charcoal and ashes would still be easy to obtain.

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