Something I Always Wondered About Together

[TheKingofSquirrels]

Why is the Hammer craftable without a science machine? You can't do that in the original game. Someone actively went in and changed that. Why? It just gives grieffers and looters quicker access to stealing and breaking stuff.

 And also, there's this horrible tendency now to go around demolishing pig houses with hammers for quick supplies. It ruins the game for everyone. 

I really don't understand Klei's decision here at all.  

 

[Electroely]

It's part of RoG.

[56933043043]

Just now, Electroely said:

It's part of RoG.

Still doesn't explain why it was changed. I wonder if the Klei devs are trying to teach us that hammers are simpler than shovels.

[absimiliard]

I don't recall any discussion at the time as to why the hammer was made to take grass instead of rope and was removed from the science-machine's tab and made available to the player at the start.

 

I'd guess it was for resource gathering from huts and pig/merm-heads.  I'd say moleworm gathering but that takes a shovel to really do right (otherwise you can't make the moleworm make a new hole).

 

I don't think it's all that big a deal from a griefing perspective though.  A science machine was never a real problem to make.  You don't really slow down a griefer much by requiring them to make a science machine first.  Besides, burning things is still the best griefing technique, and torches are trivial to make.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

13 minutes ago, Electroely said:

It's part of RoG.

Did not know that. Guess cause the last time I played the singleplayer, was Shipwrecked (and there, the hammer isn't build able without a science machine)

[Starlogy]

10 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Guess cause the last time I played the singleplayer, was Shipwrecked (and there, the hammer isn't build able without a science machine)

Really? Did you have RoG enabled on Steam? Cause if you did, it would let you craft without a science machine.

[Rellimarual]

36 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

 And also, there's this horrible tendency now to go around demolishing pig houses with hammers for quick supplies. It ruins the game for everyone. 

This. It seems to be a "tip" people pick up from solo speed runs they see on YouTube, and of course it's fine in that context, but there is nothing more annoying than heading over to the pig village with four monster meats only to find that all the houses are gone and the pigs scattered to the wind or murdered by spiders. Don't be so lazy: how hard is it to chop 16 logs and mine 12 rocks?

[thistownneedsguns]

people who destroy pig houses would probably do it aswell after they need a science machine to craft the hammer. 

[absimiliard]

Alas:  two pig-huts at the PK equals exactly 1 Alch if you exchange the skins for gold.  Of course you need a sci-machine to make it, but ....

 

Let's just grant that for many people that quick return is pretty hard to turn down.  (if you are that kind of person may I at least request that you consider putting your new alch. machine there, at the PK, so that way at least future visitors can use it and won't hammer more huts?)

[thistownneedsguns]

on public servers its more about the cheap armor.. and not the gold. 

 

and i disagree with you, that burning things is still the best griefing tactic. smart griefers destroy all pig houses, kill all beefalos, destroy all bee hives, destroy the catoon houses. then take all pig skins and stuff like that you've farmed so far and leave the server.  so you end up with little to no ressources. 

[ItsPizzaTime]

Most people in this game will play for themselves, and also most think that because of how temporary a public server is that destroying pig houses is nothing because the world is not going to last anyways. If you're playing in your own server and people are doing this you need to tell them what you dont want wrecked or just kick them and find people who play alike. Most of the time if I'm doing something like this its to situate the pigs for farming and I end up placing their houses back once I have a large surplus of pigskin.

[HamBatter]

3 hours ago, Sketched_Philo said:

Still doesn't explain why it was changed. I wonder if the Klei devs are trying to teach us that hammers are simpler than shovels.

In RoG it's probably meant for collecting Bone Shards as you're traveling. But the heads and houses are what the regular player base have gravitated towards.

[Michi01]

I don't know why because it doesn't make a lot of sense now that I think about it but I always thought it was so people can hammer their structures after they burnt down in summer in case their research machines also burned and they didn't craft a hammer beforehand.

[absimiliard]

*face-palm*

 

Bone-shards.

 

If I used farms more often I'd have remembered that.  Buckets aren't bad.  I'll bet HamBatter is right.  I should try to remember the saddlehorn though, I do like shards for that.  (because I'm a weird beefalo riding Wes-player, because "Wes on a Cow" is Just Plain Wrong!)

[Renegade_Doll]

Would make more sense to have the shovel default and the hammer to be prototyped. Hammer is more costly, and outside of getting rid of houses or heads-on-poles it doesn't have much use until a base is made. The shovel however, extremely useful for grave digging, gathering plants and removing stumps. Rather backwards in general.

 

[Electroely]

2 hours ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Rather backwards in general.

Well, you are talking about Don't Starve logic, so you shouldn't be surprised.

[56933043043]

2 hours ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Would make more sense to have the shovel default and the hammer to be prototyped. Hammer is more costly, and outside of getting rid of houses or heads-on-poles it doesn't have much use until a base is made. The shovel however, extremely useful for grave digging, gathering plants and removing stumps. Rather backwards in general.

 

Those are reasons I'd argue for the shovel, but not the hammer, to need a science machine to be crafted. Items in the science tier are there, more or less, so players don't have them available from the get-go. Being able to dig up mushrooms, plants, stumps, and graves straight out of the portal doesn't seem right from the perspective of the game's progression, to me at least.

[Starlogy]

54 minutes ago, Sketched_Philo said:

Being able to dig up mushrooms, plants, stumps, and graves straight out of the portal doesn't seem right from the perspective of the game's progression, to me at least.

inb4 wickerbottom

[absimiliard]

Oh, sure, but She's special.  It is -- after all -- her special ability to be able to do sciencey-stuff right out of the gate.

[Starlogy]

1 hour ago, absimiliard said:

It is -- after all -- her special ability to be able to do sciencey-stuff right out of the gate.

but i thought her special ability was her books?

[Destros09]

1 minute ago, StarmanNess said:

but i thought her special ability was her books?

Books are a balance for once you get an alchemy machine (since her other perk is useless than)

[Arlesienne]

Trivia: Wilson won't be able to make a bucket of manure without Forbidden Knowledge. After this (and we mercifully assume his family taught him to use the potty), hammers before shovels won't surprise me.