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Dead and Over-Expensive Items


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The game has a lot of them surprisingly. They are just items in the game that either are not worth using, or they require too many resources.

 

While it is true that playing longer sessions will eventually lead to an abundance of resources. Most public servers do not last past winter. And in general, it makes little sense how the resource requirement of certain items just, scales up sharply for no reason at all. While other items have just unbalanced features in general.

Some examples would be the Piggyback. If the developers increased its resource requirement, and removed its negative effects, it could be a legitimate second tier backpack players who save up or survive long enough can get. Instead, never really used. Why be slower, that means every trip will be longer.

Oh if you wield the walking cane you can move around just fine with the Piggyback. Well then why do you not just get rid of the Piggyback and fly around the map with the cane with a mere four less inventory slots. anticipated counter to generic everything-is-useful commentors

Also have the Bat Bat. Lots of resources, few uses. There is also Smallbird raising, which is just a challenge instead of a real beneficial mechanic. Same goes for Beefalo riding, takes up too many resources and is completely finite. Farm pits, lots of resources required yet they barely produce any food; ever. Why make a bee mine, when you have tooth traps. Why make a bee box, it really does not produce anything you need that is worth sacrificing the time over doing something else.

 

Honestly backpacks in general should be nerfed. They pretty much defeat the existence of torso items in general, can just use a thermal stone to substitute for warm or cool tops. Can just swap back and forth between the backpack and torso armor. Unless the developers intended for backpacks to be the base, always present lifeblood of the player; it really should not dominate the scene as much as it does over everything else. Again, less variety in how people play the game because of this.

 

The game has a surprising amount of things like this. If the Piggyback and Beefalo riding features had their negative and finite aspects removed, and their resource requirement increased, they could become legitimate higher-tier features of the game players could work towards. If the Bat Bat did not cost such a ridiculous amount for so little use, it could be an actual weapon players use. Instead these items have mixed requirements and aspects; which leads to them being completely cosmetic or not even worth getting to begin with.

General discussion and references to other items in the game which could use improvement would be useful for bringing more attention to this.

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9 minutes ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Why make a bee box, it really does not produce anything you need that is worth sacrificing the time over doing something else.

Mass producing health, sanity, and hunger food at the same time late game

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And here I always thought the trick is in choosing what's worth building and what you get out of boredom (marble avariel statues). Like, Willow will know racks and honey are the thing while Wilson will keep building farms, bee mines and one-man's-bands.

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52 minutes ago, Renegade_Doll said:

While it is true that playing longer sessions will eventually lead to an abundance of resources. Most public servers do not last past winter. And in general, it makes little sense how the resource requirement of certain items just, scales up sharply for no reason at all. While other items have just unbalanced features in general.

That doesn't mean that content for experienced players and private games shouldn't exist.

53 minutes ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Some examples would be the Piggyback. If the developers increased its resource requirement, and removed its negative effects, it could be a legitimate second tier backpack players who save up or survive long enough can get. Instead, never really used. Why be slower, that means every trip will be longer.

You are wrong. I mean you are right with the part that it's worse than regular backpack. But like many items in this game, piggyback is situational. It's really worth having one in camp. If you need to move a lot of resources or just want to gather lots of tufts/saplings/bushes then piggyback is the way to go. Same goes with turfs - I guess you never needed lots of rocky turf for cobblestones.
Of course bundles are a thing now. But still you can't always take all the bundles with you.
And bundles + piggyback work well, giving you even more space for turf or crap.

53 minutes ago, Renegade_Doll said:

Beefalo riding

I wasn't bothering with beefalo taming at all. But after recent updates (beta branch so far) beefalo riding got it's own advantage - carrying heavy objects. Which objects? Glass decorations and cave-ins boulders. They are cool decorations that can't be crafted (like statues), so you usually need to carry them for long distances. Speed buffs like system overload won't help in this case since they have no impact on your movement speed. That's where beefalo rider come in handy. Beefalo can carry those objects with no speed penalty at all. Pair it with glossamer saddle and you can quickly move all the stuff.
It's not only about decor. Antlion boulders (and decors, too) have their own hitboxes, which means that you can use them to build impassable walls. You can wall spider dens, hounds, everything. Some creatures can wreck them I believe, but it doesn't really matter.

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3 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

 

And here I always thought the trick is in choosing what's worth building and what you get out of boredom (marble avariel statues). Like, Willow will know racks and honey are the thing while Wilson will keep building farms, bee mines and one-man's-bands.

 

Agreed I thought maxwell was the perfect for other sanity draining items
and in DS warly needs beeboxes before racks and farms
but thats DS 
though my point still stands I think it depends on the character and or player choice

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Piggyback is good for base building unless you're really lucky with Krampus Sacks, also waterproof and fireproof so it can be treated as storage for items you access less.

Beefalo riding good for Boulder walls.

Farms are good supplemental food supply.

Bee Mines can slow down Deerclops iirc, also good for safest auto farm against Spider Queen around hives or boxes (not as great for honey production).

Bee Boxes have great returns and are easier to make when you have one set up, you can leave one prebuilt so it's not as troublesome if you lose them.

Backpacks aren't needed all the time, but they're pretty great.

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Did you say farms and bee boxes aren't worth making??? What? Bee boxes are like the easiest food ever, is part of some good recipes, and can be used for honey poultice if you don't have any easier healing food to make, and require practically no time after they're made. Free food flow. Farms aren't QUITE free food but nearly are after they're made, for slightly more effort, and tend to give out items with good healing (esp. good earlier game when you don't have as many abundant ways to heal) and later you can just have mass dragonfruit. They're also required in order for vegetable recipes to be renewable; you run out of carrots after awhile. Unless you just mean the meh farm compared to the improved farm? Since yeah I guess I don't really bother with that one, but w/e.

Now, yeah, the game is pretty easy later so it's not like you need either, but these things are still great. I thought you were gonna complain about the beekeeper hat being pointless for how much silk it uses when I can just use a log suit or something.

Oof, backpacks again. They're nice, especially earlygame, but some people seem outright addicted; once a base is up it's not hard to manage your inventory without one. As for piggyback; yeah, it's mostly irrelevant, but it's waterproof and only slows you down by 10%, so if you really need a little more inventory it's not bad at all. Definitely not a regular use item though and most people will probably never need it, but we don't need it upgraded into "easy second tier backpack with even MORE space!" either, because backpacks don't need to be more addictive than they already are.

Haven't used bee mines much but they have their uses as people are describing.

The Bat Bat -is- rather expensive, but it's all easily renewable materials and it regens 6.8 hp a hit, which is kind of large. You probably only want to use it on special fights/trips but that's some hella healing. It's a kind of niche item but having those isn't bad; what's important is that if you make it, it's definitely pretty useful, and none of the ingredients are super hard to get later in the game or limited.

 

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All of these items have their uses, like people have said above, yet i haven't seen anyone mention the thermometer.

I mean really. Who uses thermometers besides newer players or people who play on random season length. At this point the damn thing is a decoration for all i care.

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Tamed beefalos can be extremely useful in given situations and keeping them is also not a problem, if you manage to tame a beefalo, getting 4 nitres and 2 logs every 15 days cannot be difficult. The domesticating process is long and requires lots of resources of course, but for it you get a huge speed bonus or a built-in walking cane + dark sword + regenerating armour. (Not to mention that you can gain a lot of sanity if you wear the bee queen hat, without risking to lose its durability.) I think it definitely worth it. 

1 hour ago, Renegade_Doll said:

If the Piggyback and Beefalo riding features had their negative and finite aspects removed, and their resource requirement increased, they could become legitimate higher-tier features of the game players could work towards.

 

What negative and finite aspects of a tamed beefalo? That you need one salt lick every season, with which your beefalo stays with you forever? Changing it to its advantage would be way too overpowered. What would you want, stronger hits, more hp, no maintenance? It's already a practically infinite dark sword.

Honestly, I think beefalo taming is good as it is. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Tumalu said:

 They're also required in order for vegetable recipes to be renewable; you run out of carrots after awhile.

Bunnymen farm provides carrots and meat. Shrooms provide themselves, same with shroom planters. Cactus is a vegetable aswell, though I wouldn't recommend using it in veggie dishes since it has other uses (sanity), while you already can easily get shrooms/carrots.

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2 hours ago, Renegade_Doll said:

 

Why make a bee mine, when you have tooth traps.

 

 

 

 

I feel that there is another significantly better alternative to bee mines, and that is to simply catch killer bees and carry them around in the inventory.

I mean...what benefits do bee mines have over just plain stacks of killer bees?

Bee mines don't stack, release 6 normal bees that only aggro the mob that triggers it, and are then passive unless attacked. Killer bees can stack up to 20, can be dropped anywhere and do not need to be stepped on, and aggro anything that gets too close(players included).

It could be argued that bee mines don't get hungry like normal stacks of killer bees, but killer bees can be kept alive very easily, as they can eat any food items to feed all the bees in a stack(light bulbs, seeds, petals). Not to mention we can place killer bees in bundling wraps, where they don't get hungry. I feel like bee mines need to be changed in some way to become viable again. (Maybe they should stack?)

Also, killer bees have an advantage over tooth traps, being better at defeating bulky mobs without area attacks.

Bees do 10 damage per hit, and have 100 HP. They attack rather quickly. If you can dump, say, 20 bees on a single enemy, said enemy will take about 200 damage on the first few seconds of combat. If the enemy in question can only kill one bee at a time, this damage will drop rather slowly, losing about 10 damage from their total DPS every 2-3 seconds. Dump 40 killer bees on an enemy, 400 damage at the start of combat, and so on and so forth.

They're good for cheesing defeating large HP mobs, with slow, single target attacks, such as depth worms, treeguards, spider queens, Goose, and the Guardian.

Personally I like to bring 40 killer bees with me whenever I go to the ruins because it's easier for me to catch 40 killer bees than to learn to kite the Guardian.

 

 

 

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 That's why you don't use lots of bee mines but just one. Place one and surround it with many bee boxes. All bees outside will aggro on enemies after they attack one of the bees that came from mine. Worker bees get attacked - bee boxes spawn killer bees.
 Of course it's not perfect system.

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7 minutes ago, Maslak said:

 That's why you don't use lots of bee mines but just one. Place one and surround it with many bee boxes. All bees outside will aggro on enemies after they attack one of the bees that came from mine. Worker bees get attacked - bee boxes spawn killer bees.
 Of course it's not perfect system.

I can't take so many bee boxes to the ruins

Yeah, use a single bee mine with lots of bee boxes. That's their one use. Requires less maintenance than a tooth trap circle.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Farmplots are inadequate, guys. Meat and honey are just frankly better. Even just eating seeds or punching butterflies would be a better source of food than farmplots.

 

uhh... they also take a lot more effort. Are you really comparing "put seed in ground and get free food later" to hunting down creatures to fight and kill for meat, or sporadically available butterflies that you chase around? Besides, it's also not just a matter of food, but stat recovery; farm stuff tends to be helpful for healing, whether just eating an eggplant/pomegranate cooked on a fire or making dragonpie.

But yeah, like. Sure. Honey ham is great and all. But meat does not literally grow on plants. >.> Farms take next to no attention/investment after being built so it's practically free extra food.

That linked post is also really weird and says things like "Since you have farms, you won't explore because you must be at base every day to pick and replant crops!! You will become dependent!! It takes so much time!" what. Just because people have farms don't mean they're gonna be farm addicts and babysit them constantly. o.o Sure, farms "suck" if you're really weird and act like that, but why would you do that? Plant a seed and then whenever you notice it's ready just pick it. That's almost no time investment.

You just... gather meat/honey/berries as usual and have some farm stuff on the side.

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I'm sorry, but you high? I'm glad you understand that Bee Boxes are a very valuable source of food, but you are seriously understating the power of honey and overstating the power of farms. Unless you're picking up every flower you see like an idiot, Butterflies can literally subsist you through every season except winter just by themselves, and are very easily chased down. Not even a two second effort. Definitely takes less effort than gathering and maintaining farms, and you get much more hunger and healing output from punching butterflies than say, getting a pumpkin and cooking it.

Vegetables can be obtained extremely easily through another method as well: Mass Bunnymen infighting. Feed a carrot to a single bunnyman, then tell it to bop another Bunnyman. Every other Bunnyman will slaughter the Bunnyman that is targeted. Repeat the process within a Bunnyman village, and within a night you will have 3 times more vegetables than a stack of manure and a farm can give you, along with some meat if you're careful enough. That doesn't even include the similar maintenance cycle of Berry Bushes, where the Farm needs to be re-fertilized every few cycles. 

To call Farms an "early-game strat" is flat out wrong. They are a mid/late-game luxury, and to give advice like this to others is borderline harmful in my eyes.

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People, let's be civilized -somehow. These are what we call play styles and building prioritization. The only thing why we're having that kind of statement because we are most likely finding the best way to acquire such sustenance or because it could give the most satisfaction. These "items" are not obsolete, but only neglected due to the incompetency or yet what the majority of the player base finds it effective. 

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I think you're wrong about the piggyback. While I do not use it myself (I am a bagless bagel) I see plenty of other people who use it. For most players I know the speed downside is worth the larger inventory.

As for backpacks defeating the world existence of torso items, I think they're fine. It gives players a choice between a backpack or torso items. I choose torso items mainly because I prefer wearing armor on my head instead of insulation. It's also pretty handy for quite a few things, not having a backpack. The magiluminescense makes cave exploration a treat. With the extra speed boost and light you can easily fight while having armor on. There are are also torso items for each kind of seasonal weather, which I find really handy since for the most part I ignore the torso item slot I currently have equipped.

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18 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

IMG_1584.PNG

this is a very amusing response :V Although last I recall you can't use leafy meat in the crockpot so it's not terribly useful, but still, A+

Anyway farms are certainly no end-all-be-all but they're definitely useful. It's kind of weird that I still have people telling me taking 5 seconds to put some seeds in the ground is a big time investment but w/e? Farms need to be fertilized every THIRTY cycles, not every "few" cycles, by the way. Butterflies are awesome (so much easy healing :D) but if you're getting enough wings to "sustain you through every season" you're putting some major time investment into fighting them. Except those times where a flower seems to spawn a butterfly every 3 seconds for an entire day, that's really weird.

The bunnymen thing is a pretty amusing strat though. Not something I'd want to do since it feels really exploit-y (hence why I have mods for no ice filler and no monster meat for birdcages, esp. since klei wanted to patch the latter out until people complained) but that's definitely an amusing and effective :V

 

Also when I say "early game" I mean like, compared to later when you're already pretty much drowning in everything you could want. At that point, you're not as likely to need random eggplants/pomegranates for healing.

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1 hour ago, Sketched_Philo said:

I feel that there is another significantly better alternative to bee mines, and that is to simply catch killer bees and carry them around in the inventory.

I mean...what benefits do bee mines have over just plain stacks of killer bees?

Bee mines don't stack, release 6 normal bees that only aggro the mob that triggers it, and are then passive unless attacked. Killer bees can stack up to 20, can be dropped anywhere and do not need to be stepped on, and aggro anything that gets too close(players included).

It could be argued that bee mines don't get hungry like normal stacks of killer bees, but killer bees can be kept alive very easily, as they can eat any food items to feed all the bees in a stack(light bulbs, seeds, petals). Not to mention we can place killer bees in bundling wraps, where they don't get hungry. I feel like bee mines need to be changed in some way to become viable again. (Maybe they should stack?)

Also, killer bees have an advantage over tooth traps, being better at defeating bulky mobs without area attacks.

Bees do 10 damage per hit, and have 100 HP. They attack rather quickly. If you can dump, say, 20 bees on a single enemy, said enemy will take about 200 damage on the first few seconds of combat. If the enemy in question can only kill one bee at a time, this damage will drop rather slowly, losing about 10 damage from their total DPS every 2-3 seconds. Dump 40 killer bees on an enemy, 400 damage at the start of combat, and so on and so forth.

They're good for cheesing defeating large HP mobs, with slow, single target attacks, such as depth worms, treeguards, spider queens, Goose, and the Guardian.

Personally I like to bring 40 killer bees with me whenever I go to the ruins because it's easier for me to catch 40 killer bees than to learn to kite the Guardian.

 

 

 

Didn't know Killer Bees don't get hungry in Bundle Wraps... I'm defiantly going utilize mass Killer Bees more then because I did enjoy using Bee Mines despite how costly they were... 

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