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Boss health is too high to be fun in low player count games


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Hey Klei,

love don't starve, and I love dst. And before I get flamed by the seriously hardcore dudes, I think what I'm about to propose should be an optional toggle... but we need scaling.

I play with a friend, griefing free (we had a few bad experiences with random players) in a two man password game.

Honestly, bosses like the bee queen are not fun for us. single player don't starve had great health pools, and even a small boost to that would be cool... but over 20,000? Hundreds of hits. She has almost 10x the health of the badger dude, he felt right... even if we had Bigfoot (which we sadly don't get even in passworded game with friends) she'd take 22 hits from him to kill. 

It's health to the point of hours of smacking her in the face, and beating her once nevermind getting her drops for both of us is actually pretty boring. Dragonfly is the same way, I'd kill for a toggle that let us have the original dragonfly, fire breathing and all, as a toggle.

Original dragonfly is fun. New dragonfly is just an endless healthpool. 

I'd love to see an optional scaling toggle based on player count - like 22500 being the max player level, maybe 5000 for single player, 9000 or so for two, etc etc.

These games are amazing, but bosses who require a hundred gunpowder or hours of repetitive hit and run just isn't enjoyable the way bosses in the original were enjoyable.

And before someone accuses us of being poor players or lazy, we did win against dragonfly, but afterwards we just sort of agreed that it wasn't fun and we wouldn't do it again. That's a weird comment when it comes to don't starve, because it's usually a ton of fun.

This level of health is challenge of the kind only a small few will ever have the patience to even take a swing at, and I think it's important that the bosses are both deadly, but also a real riot to fight.

Give me eyeclops levels of health, give me double that if you want, but not 15x that.

 

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I can understand it's annoying and not worth it for you, the bosses' healths are really scaled for more players. There are quite a lot mods that scale them back to DS value, or based on the number of players on the server, or where you can set every mob's health in the mod setting as you wish. Just search for "health" in the workshop, you'll find them.

On the other hand, so much health can be needed. I played on a public server not long ago where people were like "Guys, who want to kill Klaus?", so we went and killed it in abaut a minute, or not much more. And Klaus has 10+5k health, and we still had to avoid the heating/freezing attacks. Less health would have been just no fun. And as DST is designed to be multiplayer, the health scaling must be also that high. 

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Kinda disagree. The health of the bosses right now seems great for me. Because DST has the multiplayer option it is already like scaling the boss' health. If you want the boss fights to be a lot faster the game encourages you to play with other players. The more good players you play with the easier and faster the bosses become.

But the game also makes it challenging enough for the hardcore players who are good enough to kill the bosses on their own and who find ways to make the fights easy or fast enough for themselves.

These are boss fights. It's one of the only things in the game that feels like something you prepare for and that gives meaning to all the stuff we have built in our bases.  I don't think it should feel like just another normal day of farming something in DST. I think if they made the bosses easier it might feel that way to a lot of players.

For newer players there is always the option of either learning to make the boss fights easier for themselves or finding a way to play with others. The total number of useful players in the game practically divides the boss' total health by that number. That's your scaling right there.

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1 minute ago, brbrmensch said:

fast, direct solution of changing the game the way not everyone would agree, why would you not be happy? or some people do think mods are cheats?

I'm very happy with mods, I use them all the time. It just bugs me when someone reply's to a suggestion by saying that's what mods are for. Having something added to the game by the devs is way better than a mod. Mods get outdated buggy and sometimes just abandoned.

That's just on opinion. :)

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4 hours ago, JimmyJam said:

It just bugs me when someone reply's to a suggestion by saying that's what mods are for.

To be fair, Klei worked really hard to be able to make mods function properly in their game, and make it easier for people to modify the game. That's why people usually reply with a mod, as the developers would want you to do that.

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I agree with @JimmyJam, the health either needs some type of option in the settings to were we can change these new bosses health based on maybe difficulty / amount of players, or just add some type of automatic scan system  that changes the health of big hp bosses when a certain amount of players join the server, because Its not easy fighting for example, toadstool solo..(maybe Wolfgang but that's still a hard thing to do for most players) and yes, I get this game is co-op, but at the same time, you got to add some balance for the solo/ lower than the max amount of players experience because not everybody can play this game with a full team and its unfair for them that they can't get the full experience of the game, they can't get new content items from bosses because they don't have a certain amount of people to fight a boss that requires triple of yourself to fight it, and that goes for both console and pc players.

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On 14.2.2017 at 5:37 AM, WiggyWolf said:

Kinda disagree. The health of the bosses right now seems great for me. Because DST has the multiplayer option it is already like scaling the boss' health. If you want the boss fights to be a lot faster the game encourages you to play with other players. The more good players you play with the easier and faster the bosses become.

But the game also makes it challenging enough for the hardcore players who are good enough to kill the bosses on their own and who find ways to make the fights easy or fast enough for themselves.

These are boss fights. It's one of the only things in the game that feels like something you prepare for and that gives meaning to all the stuff we have built in our bases.  I don't think it should feel like just another normal day of farming something in DST. I think if they made the bosses easier it might feel that way to a lot of players.

For newer players there is always the option of either learning to make the boss fights easier for themselves or finding a way to play with others. The total number of useful players in the game practically divides the boss' total health by that number. That's your scaling right there.

well if you play on public you have probably noticed that people can even solo klaus. 

you all agree that you meet at klaus in 2 days to kill him. some idiot goes before and kills him alone, and takes all the loot. and he logs off as soon as he tells us klaus is dead and we dont need to go to him anymore. 

adjusting the health pool on the amount of players sounds nice to me. servers with 2 or less get lower health pool, until 4 players normal health pool, more than 4 gets more health so fights are not too easy (and therefore boring). 

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22 hours ago, Neutral_Steve said:

I would actually like ONLY the raid bosses have scaled health with players amount.

If the rest of the creatures aren't affected by this, fighting with friend pigs or beefalo would be OP on single player situation. It is compensated for a reason :v

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I'm pretty sure boss fights would still go down the same way, but faster/longer based on the hp change,@mochilo, you still couldn't kill toadstool with a bunch of bunnymen even if it's health was half because of his damage that he would do and dragonfly can already be killed by bunnymen using various "tactics" made by the community, that also goes for bee queen as well. 

The main things that need to be put in this adjustable boss health system would be Rage Klaus, Toadstool, Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Some of the big Shadow Chess creatures and the last boss coming out.

I don't see a problem with normal Klaus imo.

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On 2/16/2017 at 2:20 AM, AniMike said:

I'm pretty sure boss fights would still go down the same way, but faster/longer based on the hp change,@mochilo, you still couldn't kill toadstool with a bunch of bunnymen even if it's health was half because of his damage that he would do and dragonfly can already be killed by bunnymen using various "tactics" made by the community, that also goes for bee queen as well. 

The main things that need to be put in this adjustable boss health system would be Rage Klaus, Toadstool, Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Some of the big Shadow Chess creatures and the last boss coming out.

I don't see a problem with normal Klaus imo.

Very well said.

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I don't believe the game should be made easier on the base level.  I think Klei should do what they want to do and make the game as hard as they want to make it.  The challenge for us as players is to beat THAT game.  If that game is too hard for you YES use mods to alter the things you want altered.  They made the game that way JUST so you can do that easily.  I don't think any time should be invested in scaling mechanics or toggles, it just feels like a waste of their time.

So the bigger question here and the one I believe the threader is asking is what do you do when you at a single player, or two man experience?  And many people have provided answers which all boil down to this, figure out a way to do it.  The are NUMEROUS videos out there of players soloing every boss in all manner of ways.  I can honestly say as a veteran player of Don't Starve that 2 people is really all you need for just about every boss.  You hit a couple speed bumps with Bee Queen and Toad, but it is quite possible and doable.  Its really all a question of what kind of world you want to live in.  And if you're struggling for ideas on how to do things just pop into public servers for awhile and see what people are doing.

One particular server I play on is Strictly Unprofessional Public and when the server has long stretches some of the things people build are basically machines that solo particular bosses, whether it uses pigs, bunnies, tentacles, spiders, you name it.  All you do as a player is show up start the boss and let the rest take care of itself.  Then you can transfer those things to your private 2 man world and build them there. Now you can handle the bosses with your friends. 

All in all great thing about this game is you have a variety of options before on how you want to play the game.  You need a quick fix there is MORE THAN LIKELY a mod for it, if you want the challenge figure out how to do it in game.  For everything else in between there is the community and STILL a mod for that.

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@Clwnbaby,  I agree,  we can mod things ourselves the way we want it, but thats only the pc side of dst. From my experience playing console, you dont have access to do such things in game,(I want geometric placement on console so bad :/) and to be honest, the reason why I agree with a system like this is because I dont want bosses to be a set back( hard mode) for Solo / lower then the max amount of players, I rather have fun and fair boss fights for everyone in every session rather then me using cheap methods to take down tanky bosses. I don't know who else plays both versions of dst, but I can tell you that we veteran players on pc know alot of easier methods that for some reason a very high percentage of console players never knew existed so its always been the fun natural way of fighting specific bosses on console. Now im not asking them to make the game extremely easy, im just asking for Balance on the player amount on certain bosses....and Geometric Placement on Console. <(°-°)/ if i have to, 75% on Geometric Placement 25% on Balance.

 

Please Devs, hear my cries!

 

 

 

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Also I'll say this in short, all you people who are asking for scaling or a way to lower/toggle/scale boss health for a single player experience.....THERE IS A SINGLE PLAYER GAME!!!!!! Play that!  And if you say "but but DST has such and such....," Well TS buddy.  This isn't Don't Starve sometimes Together.  This is a different game and the KEY aspect to this game is the game and pretty much EVERYTHING in it is geared (AS IT SHOULD BE) toward multiple people.  So go join publics servers and what not and make friends if you got none but stop asking them to make the game easier for you cause its just not gonna happen.  Its a multiplayer game and EVERYTHING is going to planned out for the multiplayer experience, as it should.

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