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Maxwell codex umbra upgrade


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I was wondering if it would be possible to make Maxwell's shadow puppets more useful in the late game. I was thinking if you were able to "upgrade" the codex umbra to be able to unlock more healthy and powerful shadow minion which come at greater costs. A shadow minion with a ranged attack or a shadow minion that gives a healing aura if you craft it with jelly beans or just a tank type shadow minion, crafted with marble armor with more health and slow movement?  I find 75 health minions cant really stand up for very long and you end up wasting nightmare fuel. I would like to see my fav character getting some much needed love. 

Pretty please Klei. I'm sure Maxwell would agree. 

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15 minutes ago, Electroely said:

Meh, I think Klei should start with the ability to equip armor to the shadow minions.

P.S. Doesn't this belong in the Suggestions section of these forums?

I still thing more varieties of shadow minions would be fun, particularly one with a ranged attack.

Sorry I didn't think about that. Can I move it ?

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1 hour ago, Ajosen said:

I was wondering if it would be possible to make Maxwell's shadow puppets more useful in the late game. I was thinking if you were able to "upgrade" the codex umbra to be able to unlock more healthy and powerful shadow minion which come at greater costs. A shadow minion with a ranged attack or a shadow minion that gives a healing aura if you craft it with jelly beans or just a tank type shadow minion, crafted with marble armor with more health and slow movement?  I find 75 health minions cant really stand up for very long and you end up wasting nightmare fuel. I would like to see my fav character getting some much needed love. 

Pretty please Klei. I'm sure Maxwell would agree. 

I don't know I'm worried to not make him a jack of all trades just with low health though as boozes get more health to give them a health buff as well.and better pathfinding so they can vaguely recoiled danger and stay away from it 

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1 hour ago, Donke60 said:

I don't know I'm worried to not make him a jack of all trades just with low health though as boozes get more health to give them a health buff as well.and better pathfinding so they can vaguely recoiled danger and stay away from it 

My main issue with mainly maxwells shadow duellists is that they aren't useful enough as they have too little health and are his only option for shadow minions to attack. You don't need to buff them, instead just add different types of attack shadow minions. That way you can make one or multiple shadow minions which are more appropriate for whatever situation you happen to be in. 

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2 hours ago, Electroely said:

Meh, I think Klei should start with the ability to equip armor to the shadow minions.

P.S. Doesn't this belong in the Suggestions section of these forums?

totally agree, I would be satisfied if I could equip them with shadow armors, it would be expensive but they are so weak

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In a perfect world, Maxwell you onky have Shadow Puppets. He would then, use nightmare fuel and equipment to create 'Shadow' items for the puppets to wear. This would allow you to have, duelists with any type of weapon/armor and it would allow you to have harvesters with different types of tools.

  • Giving them a razor to shave beefalo.
  • Giving them a hammer to destory dog dens.
  • Giving them axes to chop.
  • Giving them pickaxes to mine.
  • Giving them shovels to dig.
  • Giving them machetes to hack.

It would cost the same, simply adjust the recipe for the puppet and the Shadow items. Puppets cost, 1 nightmare fuel + Sanity. Tools/weaons cost 1 nightmare fuel + tool/weapon.

Having the ability to remove the weapon/tool from the puppets would also be needed. I cannot count how many times, i've had puppets going through a forest only to have them stop and mine, dig, or chop.

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I really think all that would need to be done is to include the ability to put fuel into existing puppets to increase their health and damage reduction up to a certain number of stacks, making the duelist receive greater benefit than the workers.  This way Maxwell could be a huge nightmare fuel glutton as I assume he probably should be, and enable a bit of a progression for yourself as you play.

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Additionally, I think his workers should respond to stimuli like pigs do with tree chopping, but instead imprinting the last prefab name Maxwell worked on so they know what they're supposed to be working on.  These instructions could be kept indefinitely until changed, and the Codex Umbra could be a usable item with no charges that causes all active workers to forget their duties until re-assigned.

I suppose the imprinted objects could be represented by a table that you just keep adding to until you need to reset, so that mining rocks or chopping a mix of trees isn't weird, but it might be better to leave it to one task at a time so that they can be controlled more fluidly without having to hit that reset button all the time.

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13 hours ago, Ashkain said:

He is borderline useless at combat...

...and Maxwell himself can die if a moth lands on him too hard.

Uhhhh... nope. Maxwell can get away with using night armor pretty well. All he needs is a hop hat (of course a tam is still a better option) and he breaks even with the sanity drain of the armor. So his frailty can be countered fairly easily if you know what you're doing. That, and because of his constant sanity regen he can get away with using a dark sword pretty often. I wouldn't recommend it in a raid boss fight, but for normal combat like hounds, treeguards, ect. it's usually just fine. Any other time you can get away with just using a hambat (except for toadstool of course).

Sorry, as a Maxwell main, that comment triggered me so hard...

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3 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Uhhhh... nope. Maxwell can get away with using night armor pretty well. All he needs is a hop hat (of course a tam is still a better option) and he breaks even with the sanity drain of the armor. So his frailty can be countered fairly easily if you know what you're doing. That, and because of his constant sanity regen he can get away with using a dark sword pretty often. I wouldn't recommend it in a raid boss fight, but for normal combat like hounds, treeguards, ect. it's usually just fine. Any other time you can get away with just using a hambat (except for toadstool of course).

Sorry, as a Maxwell main, that comment triggered me so hard...

Yeah got to agree with @Sinister_Fang on this one first of all thats is only one major draw back and crockpot foods have a lot of healing factors like trailmix Bancon Eggs or this thing in the survival tab called "healing items"  I consider maxwell in both versions of DS to be really good at combat considering most of the time I just kite or wait for my puppets to stunlock tailbirds or koelphants he just has the opposite con as wendy for he excels at locking down single targets plus all the other stuff fang said so I don't think he should get a health increase just his puppets like just so that they get 100 health and I'd be fine and dandy. learn to deal with low health Wes and Maxwell mains for the win now give me all your food:P

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9 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

just his puppets like just so that they get 100 health

Even then, the puppets would still die pretty easily. I'd prefer being able to equip them with armor and have the armor lose durability when hit like it would when a player uses armor. That way the puppets would still be fairly useful, but there would still be a material cost for using them to their fullest.

And a way to get puppets to stop working would be nice. "Thanks puppet. I didn't want to deal with those spiders, but you just went and angered the whole nest and got yourself killed. Now I got warrior spiders chasing after me."

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4 hours ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Even then, the puppets would still die pretty easily. I'd prefer being able to equip them with armor and have the armor lose durability when hit like it would when a player uses armor. That way the puppets would still be fairly useful, but there would still be a material cost for using them to their fullest.

And a way to get puppets to stop working would be nice. "Thanks puppet. I didn't want to deal with those spiders, but you just went and angered the whole nest and got yourself killed. Now I got warrior spiders chasing after me."

Yeah I see your point I'm doing a maxwell run and them constantly aggro and working is rather annoying. I can see the point of the armor however I don't think you should be allowed to give them nightmare armor on the fact that they are nightmares and i think they would become to tanky

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3 hours ago, Donke60 said:

Yeah I see your point I'm doing a maxwell run and them constantly aggro and working is rather annoying. I can see the point of the armor however I don't think you should be allowed to give them nightmare armor on the fact that they are nightmares and i think they would become to tanky

Well to be fair, the night armor is a bit costly and the duelists kiting isn't perfect. They'll get hit quite a lot and burn through armor much quicker then a player would I'm sure. So I'm not seeing it being too much of an issue. I can't imagine it having much health left by the time the armor breaks so once that happens the duelist is pretty much done for.

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On 12/15/2016 at 8:17 AM, Ajosen said:

I still thing more varieties of shadow minions would be fun, particularly one with a ranged attack.

Pick up your duelist puppet and throw it. What's the word, javelin? He's going to die anyway so he might as well go out in glory. 

Alternatively, Blow Dart Puppet. You could perhaps craft the other darts and swap out what kind he carries. I can't wait for him to burn the whole world because I accidentally gave him a Fire Dart and oh god he's on the other side of the burning forest I can't catch him and he's setting every mob he sees ablaze this was a terrible idea 

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I won't say maxwell is useless because he is my bae but he also he isn't useless. I will say that the more I think about maxwells shadow duellists I feel like they are a cool idea that just dosn't have a use in the world of don't starve together. Your facing enemies with massive health that require either tanking or intelligent kiting, neither of which the duellists can do and they have 75 health which is a death sentence in this game if you don't know how to do those two things. So what do they do? Not much? So Klei. How about you let us attach armour (maybe only shadow armour) and/or make other types of shadow minion (RANGED) so maxwells codex Umbra attack option makes sense. Also klei I know you guys are probs super busy working on everything but if you could respond with thoughts on this. If maxwell is the way he is for a reason and I'm missing something, or if this is an idea that could perhaps come to the game ? I would really appreciate it  

On 16/12/2016 at 5:46 AM, Sinister_Fang said:

Uhhhh... nope. Maxwell can get away with using night armor pretty well. All he needs is a hop hat (of course a tam is still a better option) and he breaks even with the sanity drain of the armor. So his frailty can be countered fairly easily if you know what you're doing. That, and because of his constant sanity regen he can get away with using a dark sword pretty often. I wouldn't recommend it in a raid boss fight, but for normal combat like hounds, treeguards, ect. it's usually just fine. Any other time you can get away with just using a hambat (except for toadstool of course).

Sorry, as a Maxwell main, that comment triggered me so hard...

 

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27 minutes ago, Ajosen said:

maxwells shadow duellists I feel like they are a cool idea that just dosn't have a use in the world of don't starve together.

I agree with this so much. Maxwell's duelists are an awesome concept, but it really falls flat in execution. The only thing they're good for right now is keeping you insane constantly.

31 minutes ago, Ajosen said:

make other types of shadow minion (RANGED)

People keep suggesting ranged puppets, but honestly that just feels way too overpowered. Ranged weapons are meant to be costly and/or a bit awkward to use. Ranged puppets would just make this way too accessible and Maxwell would just become the new Wendy.

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Isn't Maxwell a good character for chores? (getting wood and stones)

Along with Wendy, I think Maxwell is best used in conjunction with the almighty trinity (Wolf, Wicker, WX). The trio easily makes up for the weaknesses of Maxwell and Wendy, and also benefit from their abilities.

I think instead of making him better at combat, he should be better for gathering resources. His weakness in combat is supposed to be a downside. And as I said, his downside can simply be negated by the trio.

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42 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Isn't Maxwell a good character for chores? (getting wood and stones)

Along with Wendy, I think Maxwell is best used in conjunction with the almighty trinity (Wolf, Wicker, WX). The trio easily makes up for the weaknesses of Maxwell and Wendy, and also benefit from their abilities.

I think instead of making him better at combat, he should be better for gathering resources. His weakness in combat is supposed to be a downside. And as I said, his downside can simply be negated by the trio.

Well, the problem is with the duelist shadow puppets, not so much his "sub-par" (and I use this term loosely) combat ability. We have a puppet dedicated for combat, but it's just complete and utter garbage. In situations that you'd want to use the puppet in, it would just get it killed off way too quickly.

Want a puppet to assist fighting Bearger? Too bad. His AoE will one shot any puppet.

Want a puppet to assist fighting deerclops? Too bad. His AoE also one shots them.

Want a puppet to help with spiders? Too bad. It agros the whole nest and warrior spiders swarm them.

Want a puppet to help with hounds? Well... at least they serve as a distraction to keep some of them off of you. But not for very long.

Want a puppet to help with tentacles? Hahahaha... Don't even try walking into a swamp. They'll get off one hit off on the tentacle you wanted to avoid then die.

I could go on but you get the point. Pretty much the only thing I've seen duelists even have a chance at assisting in combat is with treeguards. But even then it's not too difficult to just kill them without a puppet.

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3 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Isn't Maxwell a good character for chores? (getting wood and stones)

Along with Wendy, I think Maxwell is best used in conjunction with the almighty trinity (Wolf, Wicker, WX). The trio easily makes up for the weaknesses of Maxwell and Wendy, and also benefit from their abilities.

I think instead of making him better at combat, he should be better for gathering resources. His weakness in combat is supposed to be a downside. And as I said, his downside can simply be negated by the trio.

That's also something that makes me feel like maxwell needs a change. He used to be the king of the world, he can fragment his mind to produce shadow minions. And his best role is chopping wood faster than anyone else. King of the worlds best ability= chopping wood. Something feels wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Ajosen said:

That's also something that makes meel ke maxwell needs a change. He used to be the king of the world, he can fragment his mnd to produce shadow minions. And his best role is chopping wood faster than anyone else. King of the worlds best ability= chopping wood. Something feels wrong. 

If we make him stronger at combat, we would have to nerf his other abilities. Normally, that would be fine, but then we would now have 4 combat-oriented characters. Doesn't feel very diverse.

Also, the story is no reason to decide how powerful a character should be. I think that gameplay should be prioritized over lore. Maxwell does not even sit on the throne anymore so it's reasonable that he loses considerable power. It's also a funny little ironic twist that the supposed king of the world becomes the one to chop wood.

And I already mentioned that Maxwell is pretty good when used in combination with someone like Wolfgang because his weakness in combat gets compensated.

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