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New Boss Monster: Golem


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As boulders run low on a server a golem should break out from the ground and plant gold and rock boulders and then disappear. The golem would be a hostile towards players only and attacks by throws rocks at his enemies. He will be the type of boss that you avoid; however, killing him would provide lots of minerals.

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17 hours ago, Trenix said:

As boulders run low on a server a golem should break out from the ground and plant boulders around and then disappear. The golem would be a hostile towards players only and attacks by throws rocks at his enemies. He will be the type of boss that you avoid; however, killing him would provide lots of minerals.

Between the surface and underground, it would already take a massive amount of time to truly run out of resources.  Combined with the meteor strikes and cave-ins, rock resources are already renewable.  So why?

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4 hours ago, Ecu said:

Between the surface and underground, it would already take a massive amount of time to truly run out of resources.  Combined with the meteor strikes and cave-ins, rock resources are already renewable.  So why?

Not all servers have caves and isn't not about the rock boulders, but also the gold boulders which are mostly depleted in long running servers making it very difficult for new players to startup a base.

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2 hours ago, Trenix said:

Not all servers have caves and isn't not about the rock boulders, but also the gold boulders which are mostly depleted in long running servers making it very difficult for new players to startup a base.

I'm sorry, but caves are part of the game and I don't feel new content should be designed specifically because a server might not have caves.  As such, tumbleweeds, cave-ins, pig king, and meteor strikes offer the long term resources you are speaking about.  Do they offer a ton?  No, because endless style servers are obviously not something Klei has put a lot of support into.

So I reiterate my suggestion that if your goal is to play the game the way you seem to want to (more as a sandbox base-building game, than a roguelike survival game), then perhaps mods are the better choice.  Since unless Klei decides to go in a new direction (which they could indeed do), the game isn't designed around that sort of gameplay specifically.

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27 minutes ago, Ecu said:

I'm sorry, but caves are part of the game and I don't feel new content should be designed specifically because a server might not have caves.  As such, tumbleweeds, cave-ins, pig king, and meteor strikes offer the long term resources you are speaking about.  Do they offer a ton?  No, because endless style servers are obviously not something Klei has put a lot of support into.

So I reiterate my suggestion that if your goal is to play the game the way you seem to want to (more as a sandbox base-building game, than a roguelike survival game), then perhaps mods are the better choice.  Since unless Klei decides to go in a new direction (which they could indeed do), the game isn't designed around that sort of gameplay specifically.

Do you believe you're a DST developer or something? For days you've been telling me what this game is and how it's played while having absolutely nothing to back it up. Who are you to define the game and tell me how to play it and that if I don't like playing it that way that I should use a mod, seriously? Like come on man, by default caves are turned off. The fact that you continue to use "rogue-like" without knowing exactly what that genre is about even after being told numerous of times to look it up, just confirms you're trolling me.

I mean you really believe Klei loses support for these other two modes when they've been adding cosmetic items and even pets just recently to improve this "rogue-like survival" game? Going to just ignore you for now on, not going to feed the troll anymore. I'm basically arguing with someone who thinks they're the developer of the game, but isn't.

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Just now, Trenix said:

Do you believe you're a DST developer or something? For days you've been telling me what this game is and how it's played while having absolutely nothing to back it up. Like come on man, by default caves are turned off. The fact that you continue to use "rogue-like" without knowing exactly what that genre is about even after being told numerous of times, just confirms you're trolling me. I mean you really believe Klei loses support for these other two modes when they've been adding cosmetic items and pets just recently. So much for "rogue-like survival". Oh man...

Let's see here, DST's primary game mode is survival.  Klei's official servers only host survival gameplay.  Every official server also runs caves.  In addition to this, no accommodation is made for recipes when caves are not present.  As such, caves are definitely a integral part of the balance of the game.  Playing without caves, is essentially not playing the full game.

As for your comments on roguelikes...I seem to think that you don't understand what they are if you honestly believe DST doesn't qualify.  The primary features of roguelikes (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike), are as follows:

  • Procedurally generated, tile-based, levels.
  • Permadeath.
  • Turn-based combat.
  • Complex/Interacting systems that allow unique interactions between elements.
  • Hack n' Slash gameplay.
  • Procedurally generated items.
  • Requiring effective resource management to survive.
  • Generally single-player experiences.

Don't Starve has all of these elements with the exceptions of "turn-based combat" and "procedurally generated items".  Just because it doesn't have those two components, does not mean that DS does not qualify as a roguelike.  Don't Starve Together, while multiplayer, still preserves these elements.  It is atypical for roguelikes to be multiplayer, however, as one of the main enjoyable aspects of roguelikes is that sense of personal challenge.

Adding cosmetics/pets doesn't take away (or add anything to) DST's status as a roguelike.  They are essentially pointless content regarding gameplay and as such really don't affect anything regarding gameplay (at this time anyways).

So no, I'm not trolling you.  I just have a reasonable handle on the game and am commenting on suggestions based on said information.  If Klei was to come out and say that their direction was changing to something more along the lines that you desire, I would either mod the experience to better fit my desire, or I would just stop playing (depending on how much they changed, I suppose).  I wouldn't, however, come on here and continually suggest features that aren't in line with direction they were going towards.

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13 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

Quick question, do you just want to post ideas on the forums without anyone to voice their opinions on it, even if it's negative? Do you only want an echo chamber of positive opinions and such?

If it helps, this could sound like a fun mod. The Golem idea, not the echo chamber.

Opinions are fine, lying repetitively to get a reaction as if someone is intentionally trying to troll me, isn't. Like for example, this isn't a rouge-like game, Klei has clearly been supporting the other game modes, caves are not "part of the game", so on and so on. Also I'm arguing about the same things with him for days and he just goes in a circle like he's not listening, troll is a troll. I mean just look above on what he defines as rogue-like, he added the link to the wiki and still he added his own bullet descriptions which aren't even found in that link. Yeah, definitely a troll.

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4 minutes ago, Trenix said:

Also I'm aruging with the same things with him for days and he just goes in a circle like he's not listening, troll is a troll.

You've gotta admit, though, that's a lot more effort into a post than most "trolls" would put effort into. You both just seem to hate the word 'roguelikes', so focus on your Golem idea instead of that and build off of that. Don't let this thread get derailed.

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20 minutes ago, Trenix said:

Opinions are fine, lying repetitively to get a reaction as if someone is intentionally trying to troll me, isn't. Like for example, this isn't a rouge-like game, Klei has clearly been supporting the other game modes, caves are not "part of the game", so on and so on. Also I'm arguing about the same things with him for days and he just goes in a circle like he's not listening, troll is a troll. I mean just look above on what he defines as rogue-like, he added the link to the wiki and still he added his own bullet descriptions which aren't even found in that link. Yeah, definitely a troll.

Honestly, I feel like you're now just being dishonest.  The very bulletpoints I wrote are just shortened mirrors of the key element bulletpoints on the wiki site regarding roguelikes.  So, at this point I will have to wonder if you're just trolling or intentionally ignoring what I say because it isn't what you want to hear.

Adding another boss to the game isn't specifically a bad idea.  However adding one for the purpose of renewing resources that are already renewable is pointless.  Not a single existing boss has been designed with this purpose.

 

Edit:

@TheKingDedede, I don't dislike roguelikes.  In fact, I generally enjoy them quite a bit.  The issue is that @Trenixdoesn't feel DST qualifies as a roguelike (for whatever reason).  As such, when I claim DST as a roguelike survival game, it gets on his nerve I guess.

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1 minute ago, TheKingDedede said:

I don't mean to be rude, but does the D-Fly dropping rare gems count?

I would argue that it isn't Dragonfly's purpose to renew rare gems, as there are other methods of renewing gems as well.  Indeed, I wouldn't mind the proposed golem dropping some stone-based resources on death as well as other rare drops (like other bosses).  

However, what I am opposed to is the idea of regenerating the stone rock resources around this proposed golem.  It would be akin to Dragonfly generating random crystal formations around themselves that can be mined for gems.  Essentially, this just makes it too easy to acquire infinite resources and is out of place when compared to the other boss creatures in the game.

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5 minutes ago, Ecu said:

I would argue that it isn't Dragonfly's purpose to renew rare gems, as there are other methods of renewing gems as well.

Now, what I think is that because the D-Fly was turned into more of a raid boss, the gems act as a reward for players willing to put in the effort into killing it. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to say you're 'wrong' in any sense of the word. I would agree that there are other ways to get gems, like Tumbleweeds.

I like to see the D-Fly as a scaled piñata, really.

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57 minutes ago, Ecu said:
  • Procedurally generated, tile-based, levels.

I have to feed it. Game has no levels, technically.

Quote
  • Permadeath.

When you die you in survival mode you become a ghost and can be revived. That's not permadeath.

Quote
  • Turn-based combat.

Turn-based combat doesn't mean going back during an attack animation and then swinging, lol. There is no turn-based combat. Wiki even specifically states it, "turned based rather than real-time" combat.

Quote
  • Complex/Interacting systems that allow unique interactions between elements.
  • Requiring effective resource management to survive.

As do most other genres.

Quote
  • Hack n' Slash gameplay.

You do have peaceful options for every scenario, therefore this is not a Hack n Slash.

Quote
  • Procedurally generated items.

Couldn't find this on the wiki.

Quote
  • Generally single-player experiences.

This is Don't Starve Together, a multiplayer game with a multiplayer experience. K I'm done, I promise!

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16 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

Now, what I think is that because the D-Fly was turned into more of a raid boss, the gems act as a reward for players willing to put in the effort into killing it. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to say you're 'wrong' in any sense of the word. I would agree that there are other ways to get gems, like Tumbleweeds.

I like to see the D-Fly as a scaled piñata, really.

I do agree that with the difficulty of beating Dragonfly/Toadstool, the rewards are a bit lackluster.  You can get gems from tumbleweeds and the recipes you get from the Toadstool, while good, generally don't get used in normal play.

@SymKensakihad discussed with me the idea of having the rare recipes be like skins, where once you acquire them, you have them forever.  This would make these kind of raid boss fights more appealing to do as unlocks, where you then only need to attack them for scales/skin during following games to get an interesting item (which, while hard, isn't as hard as beating the whole fight).

Anyways, that is best left to another thread, I suppose.  Regarding this suggestion, I feel that a giant golem could really be an interesting boss fight.  It just shouldn't regenerate minable resources as was suggested.

 

Edit:

@Trenix, do you actually read my posts?  In my bulleted breakdown, I specifically mentioned that DS doesn't utilize turn-based combat or procedural items, but doesn't mean it cannot be considered a roguelike.  Regarding the tile-based levels, overworld and caves count as different levels.  Each time the world restarts, you end up with new tile-based levels.  This is nitpicking though.

You seem to specifically want to cry foul on my claim that DST is a roguelike.  Why?  Does it really matter whether it is a roguelike or not?  My claims regarding design decisions aren't really affected by the label of roguelike.  They are based on the mechanics and how they are implemented.

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12 minutes ago, Trenix said:

When you die you in survival mode you become a ghost and can be revived. That's not permadeath.

I think permadeath best applies to singleplayer Don't Starve. The one with Shipwrecked. Just to make sure, I'm not talking about DST, I'm talking about DS.

 

13 minutes ago, Trenix said:

Turn-based combat doesn't mean going back during an attack animation and then swinging, lol. There is no turn-based combat. Wiki even specifically states it, "turned based rather than real-time" combat.

Sometimes, a 'roguelike' doesn't need to specifically adhere to the rules of the genre, so to speak.

 

14 minutes ago, Trenix said:

This is Don't Starve Together, a multiplayer game with a multiplayer experience. K I'm done, I promise!

They made Don't Starve first, and then Don't Starve Together.

 

14 minutes ago, Trenix said:

I have to feed it. Game has no levels, technically.

I guess you could either call it a world or an island, really. I think using the pitchfork and finding out that the world is broken up into tiled turf pieces count, but that's just me.

These are all just things that generally make up a roguelike, and the game (or games) isn't specifically one (To me, at least) It just has some mechanics from the genre. I'm not trying to troll you, honest, I just want to repeat that it 'borrows' some mechanics from the genre. That's it.

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3 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

I think permadeath best applies to singleplayer Don't Starve. The one with Shipwrecked. Just to make sure, I'm not talking about DST, I'm talking about DS.

Technically speaking, as DST is essentially a small group of people working together (or against each other) to survive.  Permadeath exists when all players are dead.  Essentially that is the game over scenario and at that time, you are required to start over (in standard play, i.e. survival).  So DST has this, as well.

5 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

I guess you could either call it a world or an island, really. I think using the pitchfork and finding out that the world is broken up into tiled turf pieces count, but that's just me.

These are all just things that generally make up a roguelike, and the game (or games) isn't specifically one (To me, at least) It just has some mechanics from the genre. I'm not trying to troll you, honest, I just want to repeat that it 'borrows' some mechanics from the genre. That's it.

Actually, DS/DST's world generation is actually a tilemap.  In fact, set pieces are made using the popular tilemap editor Tiled.  So, DS/DST are indeed tile-based games.  Which as you stated, is quite evident by just using the pitchfork.

The bullet points I listed are indeed key elements of a roguelike.  Don't Starve contains all but two of these key elements (which is in line with many modern roguelike games, such as FTL).  Don't Starve Together contains all but three of these key elements (because it is also multiplayer).  However, the multiplayer nature of DST even, is very minimal.  It is more small group play, which I believe @Trenix likes to call "singleplayer with friends".  While you do work together in DST, a lot of time is still spent in a very singleplayer style experience.  So I question if DST really violates this key element even.

All in all, I personally feel fully justified in calling DST a roguelike.  If you don't want to, fine, but if you don't want me to, you better have one heck of an argument for your viewpoint.

I wouldn't continue on this side track we've managed to get pulled into, but it seems we've veered completely off track with no sign of getting back on.  Perhaps this suggestion could work as another encounter again to Dragonfly/Toadstool as a neat raid boss, rather than a resource renewal mechanic?  Remove the renewing of resource nodes, give it a defensive mode like rock lobsters have, that you have to mine through or something?  Getting special resources as a result.  Just spitballing here as I really have had no plan for a golem boss.

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I don't know why it took me this long to check if they had a feedback section on their forums... But speaking of Golems, I found those Petrified Trees for the first time like 2 weeks ago (I don't play as often as I'd like). I thought since Tree Guards existed it would be cool if Golems spawned from mining too many of those stone trees. Maybe not as a boss, but just a regular monster type.

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3 hours ago, AHappyPumpkin said:

I don't know why it took me this long to check if they had a feedback section on their forums... But speaking of Golems, I found those Petrified Trees for the first time like 2 weeks ago (I don't play as often as I'd like). I thought since Tree Guards existed it would be cool if Golems spawned from mining too many of those stone trees. Maybe not as a boss, but just a regular monster type.

Marble guards would be pretty awesome to have, I agree.

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