Jump to content

Ocuvigil telling you when you are getting griefed


Recommended Posts

I had an idea that might help to know when you are being griefed,that way you could avoid the problem of going to a far place like ruins,toadstool and coming back to discover that your base was griefed 5 days ago,making it useless to roll back.

Basicaly the Ocuvigil would tell to all players "linked" to it when the area it has been placed on its being griefed,maybe it could make a sound or a Message could appear on the top of the screen of the linked players similar to the skin/join/ban messages. 

It would make that alarm when someone on that area is hammering/burning anything in there and the message could be " (someone) is (hammering/burning) your (something) ! "

To link to it maybe it could simply be clicking it or giving it some item like nightmare fuel etc. And there should't be a limit to the number of people conected to it,i think that this idea would make the ocuvigil something better than a improved version of the moon len and might be a little something against griefers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel that no, this idea should not be implemented.  Simply put...what is griefing?  Is your stuff burning due to summer griefing?  Is Dearclops attacking griefing?  Is breaking things with a hammer griefing?  Is picking your crops and/or taking items from your chests griefing?  Simply put the very mechanics you want to be alerted to are intentional mechanics of the game.  They are only griefing when someone does such with malicious intent, which you cannot effectively detect (at least rationally).

I've posted this in other griefing threads as well.  We do not need additional mechanics to combat griefing.  We need additional support from Klei to keep those that grief off our servers.  That is the only way to really combat griefing at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ecu said:

1) We need additional support from Klei to keep those that grief off our servers. 1) That is the only way to really combat griefing at all.

1) This is one of the reasons why the world is doomed (jk). On a serious note, I think the better and more thoughtful approach would be if mechanics were implemented in the game which would prevent griefing in the first place via game mechanics, while at the same time not interfering with normal gameplay much at all or unnoticably. This being done in order to reform griefers, making griefing potentially impossible, a boring thing to do and bringing people. The approach you're suggesting and the approach way too many people seem to agree with is one which either separates people into "good" and "bad" categories, which in terms of psychology are false or giving no regard/ignoring to the fact that anybody can be nice/an a-hole based on circumstance, resulting in potentially decent people being forever removed because of what they did ages ago. Please, don't take this emotionally, try to rationalize this. I know people might not care about griefers because they're griefers, but if the above approach is put in practice instead, it's potentially more better people instead of a separation between "good" and "bad".

2) I would say that's false, considering what I just wrote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

If my partner currently shaving beefalos asks me to hammer down a wall in the base, am I "griefing" too? @Wexton and @Ecu?

The idea is that when a players sneaks on your base and starts hammering everything you notice it,obiuosly if a friend tells you that he's going to hammer something you don't need to be alerted by the message.

The message might be a little bit annoying tho,maybe you could deactivate it for a while by clicking on the message or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ecu said:

 

I feel that no, this idea should not be implemented.  Simply put...what is griefing?  Is your stuff burning due to summer griefing?  Is Dearclops attacking griefing?

 

As i said  It would make that alarm when someone on that area is hammering/burning anything in there,obiously summer or enemies won't activate the alarm.

 

3 hours ago, Ecu said:

 Is picking your crops and/or taking items from your chests griefing?

For that we'll need some other idea,my idea was only for hammering and burning.

3 hours ago, Ecu said:

Simply put the very mechanics you want to be alerted to are intentional mechanics of the game.

Maybe it could be configurable when clicking it to choose what do you want it to activate,be burning,griefing,chests etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

1) This is one of the reasons why the world is doomed (jk). On a serious note, I think the better and more thoughtful approach would be if mechanics were implemented in the game which would prevent griefing in the first place via game mechanics, while at the same time not interfering with normal gameplay much at all or unnoticably. This being done in order to reform griefers, making griefing potentially impossible, a boring thing to do and bringing people. The approach you're suggesting and the approach way too many people seem to agree with is one which either separates people into "good" and "bad" categories, which in terms of psychology are false or giving no regard/ignoring to the fact that anybody can be nice/an a-hole based on circumstance, resulting in potentially decent people being forever removed because of what they did ages ago. Please, don't take this emotionally, try to rationalize this. I know people might not care about griefers because they're griefers, but if the above approach is put in practice instead, it's potentially more better people instead of a separation between "good" and "bad".

2) I would say that's false, considering what I just wrote.

The problem with your reasoning is that you cannot make burning immune to griefing without burning no longer functioning the way it does.  Hell, Summer is all about your stuff being lit on fire and as such to disable the ability to grief by burning would be destroying the effectiveness of the mechanic in the first place.  Similarly, hammering has the same issue.

Sadly, the only way to fix actual griefing is to give tools to server hosts to assist them in banning those that regularly grief.  To do that, we would need Klei on board.

1 hour ago, Wexton said:

As i said  It would make that alarm when someone on that area is hammering/burning anything in there,obiously summer or enemies won't activate the alarm.

For that we'll need some other idea,my idea was only for hammering and burning.

Maybe it could be configurable when clicking it to choose what do you want it to activate,be burning,griefing,chests etc.

Honestly, what good would an alarm do?  If you are not at your base when someone starts to light it on fire, or hammer it, you aren't likely going to be able to do anything to stop them.  If anything, all this serves to do is annoy legitimate use of mechanics and give people an advanced notice that their base is gone.  Don't see how this really helps the overall gameplay much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ecu said:

Honestly, what good would an alarm do?  If you are not at your base when someone starts to light it on fire, or hammer it, you aren't likely going to be able to do anything to stop them.  If anything, all this serves to do is annoy legitimate use of mechanics and give people an advanced notice that their base is gone.  Don't see how this really helps the overall gameplay much.

I made the idea thinking mostly on host players,for dedicated server the only use would be for starting a vote kick,but yeah the base would be already gone and unless all players used it convincing them to make a rollback vote would be hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Wexton said:

I made the idea thinking mostly on host players,for dedicated server the only use would be for starting a vote kick,but yeah the base would be already gone and unless all players used it convincing them to make a rollback vote would be hard.

Kicking someone after they have already achieved their goal does nothing but let them know they succeeded in upsetting you.  If the aim is to stop griefing, we just need tools to identify griefers and assign some kind of standing to them that hosts can use to decide whether or not said user is allowed on their server.  That requires a reasonable amount of work and infrastructure by Klei to implement well.  It would also avoid nerfing legitimate mechanics out of a fear that said mechanics could possibly, maybe, sort of, be used to grief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Ecu said:

we just need tools to identify griefers and assign some kind of standing to them that hosts can use to decide whether or not said user is allowed on their server.

i thougt of something similar too,like players being able to give you some kind of "points" that could be good or bad,but people could just give you bad points for no reason and then everyone on all servers would thing you are a griefer,so i guess not,and it would be hard to find a sistem like that without that problem,and forget about making it something like the game giving you those bad points if you burn something,as you said on another post there is no way to know if the player has good intentions or bad.

8 minutes ago, Ecu said:

That requires a reasonable amount of work and infrastructure by Klei to implement well.  It would also avoid nerfing legitimate mechanics out of a fear that said mechanics could possibly, maybe, sort of, be used to grief.

*gets Willow's nerf flashbacks*

I agree with what you said there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Wexton said:

i thougt of something similar too,like players being able to give you some kind of "points" that could be good or bad,but people could just give you bad points for no reason and then everyone on all servers would thing you are a griefer,so guess i guess not,and it would be hard to find a sistem like that without that problem,and forget about making it something like the game giving you those bad points if you burn something,as you said on another post there is no way to know if the player has good intentions or bad.

*gets Willow's nerf flashbacks*

I agree with what you said there.

Actually it isn't too hard to establish a system like this...just a bunch of time that would need to be invested.  To cite an example, have fire track who originally spread it.  Every time such fire destroys structures, assign a value to the player for that session.  After a period of time when it doesn't happen, clear some of said value.  How often they destroy non-legit objects with fire in PvE affects their Greifer score and hosts can block people based on said griefer score.

Sure, it wouldn't be perfect and would require a sizable time/development investment, but this would actually reduce the number of griefers.  Altering game mechanics instead would only serve to ruin existing mechanics and cause griefers to choose some other method to grief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ecu said:

have fire track who originally spread it.  Every time such fire destroys structures, assign a value to the player for that session.  After a period of time when it doesn't happen, clear some of said value.

I have seen lots of people almost burning the entire base after trying to burn some grass/twings to get ashes for healing salves on a bad spot,or for warming up on winter,so yeah it would require some development investment

3 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Altering game mechanics instead would only serve to ruin existing mechanics and cause griefers to choose some other method to grief.

Don't know if this is refering to the ocuvigil idea or not,but if thats the case just wanted to say that i posted this idea because it was the only antigriefing idea i could come out with that would not affect the gameplay,its simply a little message on the top of the screen,i already used the ocuvigil a lot to check my base and see if someone is burning it,and i already saw a bunch of griefers,so i thought it might be good to make it automatically tell you when that happends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Ecu said:

1) The problem with your reasoning is that you cannot make burning immune to griefing without burning no longer functioning the way it does.  Hell, Summer is all about your stuff being lit on fire and as such to disable the ability to grief by burning would be destroying the effectiveness of the mechanic in the first place.  Similarly, hammering has the same issue.

Sadly, the only way to fix actual griefing is to give tools to server hosts to assist them in banning those that regularly grief.  To do that, we would need Klei on board.

Fixing perhaps not, but keeping a lot of it away is certainly possible without ruining game mechanics that players normally use. The mechanics that this could be done with are pretty complex, but it is possible. Lets take fire as an example. This is what could be done in order to 1) Make sure that legitimate players who know what they're doing rarely even notice/don't notice the anti-griefing mechanics and 2) the mechanics are effective at keeping fire-based griefing away:

* Players cannot light flammable structures on fire (not that they're not flammable, simply direct lighting of structures by players is impossible)

* Players cannot light any flammable item/mob/plant on fire which would result in a chain reaction of a flammable structure burning down (you could still burn down a whole forest of trees, just that they would need to be out of range to any flammable structures).

* Players cannot plant/place/drop any flammable items/mobs/plants next to something that is burning/smoldering or in a chain reaction to something already burning/smoldering (this including campfire. You could still put something next to campfire, which would be subject to burning, but only if it's not going to light that tree, which is going to reach that pig house over yander. If it just reaches the tree, won't matter).

* The campfire placement range increases if it is next to an object or an item/mob/plant which is in a chain reaction range radius of a flammable structure.

 

The "lighting things by players" would include torches, lighters, fire darts and fire staves. Killing of fire hounds within base, wild fires, enraged dragonfly and lavae could still light stuff on fire, however, which is what the game has intended for this to happen if no protection is ready (e.g. ice staves, water balloons or ice flingomatics). There is one, very specific way in which fire-based griefing could be done, however a simple mechanic change could prevent this as well. It involves changing the way players loot things when they die. It is possible for a player lit on fire to barge in a base and start making things smolder, however the lighting on fire is only possible from lavae and lava ponds, so if flammable structures are a decent distance away from that, this would be practically impossible to use for griefing, considering it takes about 5 seconds before you stop being lit on fire.

26 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Kicking someone after they have already achieved their goal does nothing but let them know they succeeded in upsetting you.  If the aim is to stop griefing, we just need tools to identify griefers and assign some kind of standing to them that hosts can use to decide whether or not said user is allowed on their server.  That requires a reasonable amount of work and infrastructure by Klei to implement well.  It would also avoid nerfing legitimate mechanics out of a fear that said mechanics could possibly, maybe, sort of, be used to grief.

What exactly do you have in mind with that? I'm getting bad vibes that your ideas here will just increase admin abuse more than it's already done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Wexton said:

I have seen lots of people almost burning the entire base after trying to burn some grass/twings to get ashes for healing salves on a bad spot,or for warming up on winter,so yeah it would require some development investment

Don't know if this is refering to the ocuvigil idea or not,but if thats the case just wanted to say that i posted this idea because it was the only antigriefing idea i could come out with that would not affect the gameplay,its simply a little message on the top of the screen,i already used the ocuvigil a lot to check my base and see if someone is burning it,and i already saw a bunch of griefers,so i thought it might be good to make it automatically tell you when that happends.

I think it is a bad idea to intentionally build direct anti-griefer mechanics into the game tied to in game objects.  It should remain an out of game feature.  This is especially true when on PvP servers, it is a completely legitimate tactic to burn down or hammer another person's base.

As for people accidentally burning their base down due mistakes, that is the reason for reducing their value when they legitimately don't cause problems.  You shouldn't be flagged with a griefing score until you've burned stuff down regularly.  Accidents do indeed happen, however, someone who accidentally burns down stuff very often is probably not someone you want playing with you anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

* Players cannot light flammable structures on fire (not that they're not flammable, simply direct lighting of structures by players is impossible)

* Players cannot light any flammable item/mob/plant on fire which would result in a chain reaction of a flammable structure burning down (you could still burn down a whole forest of trees, just that they would need to be out of range to any flammable structures).

* Players cannot plant/place/drop any flammable items/mobs/plants next to something that is burning/smoldering or in a chain reaction to something already burning/smoldering (this including campfire. You could still put something next to campfire, which would be subject to burning, but only if it's not going to light that tree, which is going to reach that pig house over yander. If it just reaches the tree, won't matter).

* The campfire placement range increases if it is next to an object or an item/mob/plant which is in a chain reaction range radius of a flammable structure.

No.  Chain reaction burning is a core aspect of the fire mechanic.  Destroying said mechanic by adding all these anti-griefer protections is the very thing I stated I would be against.  Why add all these silly limitations to fire that make it feel unnatural instead of just add a system to detect griefers and stop them from joining servers?  It makes no sense.

I do not want to see elements of the game nerfed because they could be abused to grief.  Willow, for instance, is already kind of nerfed to the point that almost no one uses her, simply because her core features were too exploitable by griefers.

Let's actually target the griefers rather than the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ecu said:

I think it is a bad idea to intentionally build direct anti-griefer mechanics into the game tied to in game objects.  It should remain an out of game feature.  This is especially true when on PvP servers, it is a completely legitimate tactic to burn down or hammer another person's base.

As for people accidentally burning their base down due mistakes, that is the reason for reducing their value when they legitimately don't cause problems.  You shouldn't be flagged with a griefing score until you've burned stuff down regularly.  Accidents do indeed happen, however, someone who accidentally burns down stuff very often is probably not someone you want playing with you anyways.

Its funny how the entire post changed from a change to an item to about a system about this kind of "griefer points" thing.

Maybe you could make a post about it and check other people ideas for it,i see a lot of potential on it if we find a way to make it imposible to abuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Wexton said:

Its funny how the entire post changed from a change to an item to about a system about this kind of "griefer points" thing.

Maybe you could make a post about it and check other people ideas for it,i see a lot of potential on it if we find a way to make it imposible to abuse.

Naw, I'd be willing to contribute ideas if someone has them...but I mostly am fighting against the idea of anti-griefer in game changes.  Personally, I don't generally have the issue with griefers as much as others seem to.  Perhaps it's because I only play on the official servers?  I am not honestly sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Naw, I'd be willing to contribute ideas if someone has them...but I mostly am fighting against the idea of anti-griefer in game changes.  Personally, I don't generally have the issue with griefers as much as others seem to.  Perhaps it's because I only play on the official servers?  I am not honestly sure.

It's blown way out of proportion when usually it's just one guy who keeps coming back :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Ecu said:

1) I think it is a bad idea to intentionally build direct anti-griefer mechanics into the game tied to in game objects.  It should remain an out of game feature. This is especially true when on PvP servers, it is a completely legitimate tactic to burn down or hammer another person's base.

2) As for people accidentally burning their base down due mistakes, that is the reason for reducing their value when they legitimately don't cause problems.  You shouldn't be flagged with a griefing score until you've burned stuff down regularly.  Accidents do indeed happen, however, someone who accidentally burns down stuff very often is probably not someone you want playing with you anyways.

1) So, you're saying "people should be able to grief, becuase PvP". PvP can have its end of mechanics, as it does right now. Explain to me why in PvE, this would be bad. Just because of the concept? This is such an irresponsible attitude coming from you, honestly. I described the mechanics, I explained how they could work, I explained why they would be necessary. What is still your problem with it?

2) Wow. Are you sane, may I ask? Do you have rationale in your brain? Someone on this forum described a situation where their friend burnt down their base "because they were freezing" and the person complained about the burning mechanics. Would it not be wiser if you, you know couldn't do that in a MULTIPLAYER game and instead, perhaps a quote for each character showing explaining why they can't burn something down in a specific scenario? I'm speechless. This kind of attitude is the problem. This is why griefing is such a problem to begin with, because people like you refuse to consider the benefits of such mechanics merely because they're directly action related. You stated that it would be impossible to change the game so that griefing could be prevented with mechanics without burning stopping to function the way it does. I proved you wrong. Now you're complaining about "waaa, I want accidents to occur, waaa" to justify griefing mechanics... this is just pathetic, I have no other words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

1) So, you're saying "people should be able to grief, becuase PvP". PvP can have its end of mechanics, as it does right now. Explain to me why in PvE, this would be bad. Just because of the concept? This is such an irresponsible attitude coming from you, honestly. I described the mechanics, I explained how they could work, I explained why they would be necessary. What is still your problem with it?

2) Wow. Are you sane, may I ask? Do you have rationale in your brain? Someone on this forum described a situation where their friend burnt down their base "because they were freezing" and the person complained about the burning mechanics. Would it not be wiser if you, you know couldn't do that in a MULTIPLAYER game and instead, perhaps a quote for each character showing explaining why they can't burn something down in a specific scenario? I'm speechless. This kind of attitude is the problem. This is why griefing is such a problem to begin with, because people like you refuse to consider the benefits of such mechanics merely because they're directly action related. You stated that it would be impossible to change the game so that griefing could be prevented with mechanics without burning stopping to function the way it does. I proved you wrong. Now you're complaining about "waaa, I want accidents to occur, waaa" to justify griefing mechanics... this is just pathetic, I have no other words.

2 ways this game is getting ******* ruined:

Built-in PVP changes (character changes, etc.)

Built-in Griefing changes


2 things people always recommend and then whine about when someone says it's ******* pointless:

Built-in PVP changes

Built-in Griefing changes

 

Just, ******* no!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Ecu said:

Naw, I'd be willing to contribute ideas if someone has them...but I mostly am fighting against the idea of anti-griefer in game changes.  Personally, I don't generally have the issue with griefers as much as others seem to.  Perhaps it's because I only play on the official servers?  I am not honestly sure.

i don't like antigriefers ideas,specifically ideas that change the gameplay,i posted this one because its basicaly something that the ocuvigil is already used for,but better.

Now,i guess we should go back to topic.

I made this idea as something that might help just a little bit agaisnt griefing,obiously it wasn't thinking that it would make the griefers dissapear from the game,and also i posted it so i could see what people said about it,so what ideas do you guys have for it?

thought i should say the the stuff above because here we have spent more time talking about griefers in general than the ocuvigil thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Vargling said:

2 ways this game is getting ******* ruined:

Built-in PVP changes (character changes, etc.)

Built-in Griefing changes


2 things people always recommend and then whine about when someone says it's ******* pointless:

Built-in PVP changes

Built-in Griefing changes

 

Just, ******* no!

 

All of this is false. I am not sure what you're referring to in terms of PvP, but in terms of griefing, no mechanics of the like as I've described them have EVER even been attempted (well, except fire-spread, although it was kind of for the best as it also removed a huge exploit and besides, dozens of quick fires decrease frame rates/increase ping).

So, then, you're saying everything should be left as-is?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

All of this is false. I am not sure what you're referring to in terms of PvP, but in terms of griefing, no mechanics of the like as I've described them have EVER even been attempted (well, except fire-spread, although it was kind of for the best as it also removed a huge exploit and besides, dozens of quick fires decrease frame rates/increase ping).

So, then, you're saying everything should be left as-is?

I'm saying characters should be rebalanced and buffed, not nerfed. It's not a fuckin Blizzard game.

 

Fire-spread smoldering sucks, genuinely. No real consequence for anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Vargling said:

1) I'm saying characters should be rebalanced and buffed, not nerfed. It's not a fuckin Blizzard game.

 

2) Fire-spread smoldering sucks, genuinely. No real consequence for anything.

1) What? That? I don't know what Klei was thinking about that, because it did nothing and you could see right off the bat that it would do nothing (but aparently they didn't... I really don't know, what they were thinking when they nerfed Willow the way they did). I've nothing to say in terms of buffing/nerfing characters in relation to griefing. In terms of changing things in general, this is a must for the sake of a multiplayer experience. All the old single player cannot work well for multiplayer.

2) You've gotta be kidding me. It is still very easy for fire to spread and very hard to prevent it once even 1 thing has lit on fire next to a bunch.

6 minutes ago, Wexton said:

i don't like antigriefers ideas,specifically ideas that change the gameplay,i posted this one because its basicaly something that the ocuvigil is already used for,but better.

Now,i guess we should go back to topic.

I made this idea as something that might help just a little bit agaisnt griefing,obiously it wasn't thinking that it would make the griefers dissapear from the game,and also i posted it so i could see what people said about it,so what ideas do you guys have for it?

thought i should say the the stuff above because here we have spent more time talking about griefers in general than the ocuvigil thing.

I think it's a niche idea, but not something that would prevent griefing, just alert players about it and possibly even when unnecessary if relocating of ocuvigils were to be done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

1) What? That? I don't know what Klei was thinking about that, because it did nothing and you could see right off the bat that it would do nothing (but aparently they didn't... I really don't know, what they were thinking when they nerfed Willow the way they did). I've nothing to say in terms of buffing/nerfing characters in relation to griefing. In terms of changing things in general, this is a must for the sake of a multiplayer experience. All the old single player cannot work well for multiplayer.

2) You've gotta be kidding me. It is still very easy for fire to spread and very hard to prevent it once even 1 thing has lit on fire next to a bunch.

Except it's not though, and the addition of Water Balloons just erased any challenge with Fire.

 

As for characters, nobody will ever have a damn clue why they did it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Please be aware that the content of this thread may be outdated and no longer applicable.

×
  • Create New...