[DST] Wilson and Willow rework

[JohnWatson]

EDIT: Some time has passed and I can disagree with some of what I have been stating in this thread as I have developed different opinions. I am to lazy to edit my posts to fit my current views, and I don't think anyone should care anyway.

The problems:

• Wilson is pretty much the only character whose upside only directly benefits himself. Characters like Wigfrid provide benefit to everyone because she could craft quality weapons with cheap materials and hunt for food effectively, all while having the laughable downside of only being able to eat meat. Remember than this is supposed to be a cooperative multiplayer game.
• While technically having no downsides, Wilson still practically has the downside of not being a better character like Wigfrid or Wolfgang. It's like how many stock weapons in Team Fortress 2 have the downside of not being the best unlock (Medic's Bonesaw has the downside of not being the Übersaw, for example)
• Beard Hair is less useful in Don't Starve Together than in Don't Starve. This is because of the existence of Telltale Hearts, a cheaper alternative to Meat Effigies.
• The game developers probably think that people usually only play Willow to grief other players by burning down their camps. This is untrue since many people genuinely enjoy playing as Willow, but it's understandable why the devs and other people think that her purpose is to grief.
• Bernie is pretty much useless and is a pathetic excuse for an upside. Willow and any other character would be completely fine without the existence of Bernie in the game. The addition of Bernie doesn't even make any sense gameplay-wise as he is not related to anything Willow is supposed to be good at. I guess lore-wise he makes sense since Willow seems intended to be a childish woman, but come on, why is Bernie's ability so useless.
• Willow's Lighter is just a Torch with more expensive crafting ingredients now that it has durability. It's worthless. Just use a torch.
• Willow is no longer fire-proof. That doesn't make sense. It's one of her only abilities that differentiates her from other characters. Removing her fire immunity also removes her ability to do this, this, this, and this. 
• Characters like Wendy, Wolfgang, and Wigfrid are a lot more useful than Wilson and Willow. People only play as Wilson and Willow if they really like those characters. Players that care about long-term survival and being as beneficial as possible to other players will always choose a powerful character like Wigfrid. Players that want to play "hardcore mode" already have Wes.

My solutions:

Option 1: Nerf characters like Wigfrid to the same level as Wilson and Willow. Not a lot of players would probably be happy about it, though.

Option 2: Buff and rework Wilson and Willow to make them more beneficial for other players.

- Wilson

• Make his beard grow faster. It should take 3 days to grow a short beard, 5 days to grow a longer beard, and finally 10 days to grow the full-length beard. This makes Beard Hair more abundant for servers with a Wilson player, making him more valuable.
• Make Meat Effigies worth it to build. Maybe buff Meat Effigies by making them cost no health to build and resurrect with.
• Make beard hair more useful. My idea is to add an item called the "Beard Hat" or "Beard Scarf", which is a wearable dress item on the head. It can be crafted with 3 Beard Hair and 1 Rope. It lasts for 10 days, gives no sanity restoration, and provides 120 insulation (same as the Winter Hat)
• Maybe instead of making Wilson's beard grow faster, he should be able to speed up the growth of his beard. For example, he should be able to add 1 day of growth to his beard whenever he eats a meat item.
• With these changes, Wilson becomes a very useful character for winter survival, not only for himself, but also for other characters with him. Time spent farming Beefalo Wool and Silk during Autumn may instead be spent on other things in preparation for winter like stockpiling food and fuel.

- Willow

• Give back her fire immunity. It's more useful than it seems.
• Willow should get a 1.5x duration multiplier for the fuel she puts in Fire Pits. Have everything she cooks (through Crock Pot or Fire Pits) become 100% fresh after cooking, regardless of their previous state of spoilage. And when she cooks in a Crock Pot, the food cooks very quickly or almost instantly. While these buffs seem underwhelming, I think they would make her better for managing the camp since she will spend resources more efficiently.
• To prevent immediate griefing, she no longer starts with her lighter. This means that the player needs to craft Willow's Lighter to have access to it. However, the crafting ingredients should be made cheaper and/or the durability should be increased. Willow's Lighter should be crafted with only 1 Gold and/or its durability should be significantly increased to 3 days. This will pretty much stop people from regarding Willow as the griefer character.
• Allow Willow to extinguish fires with her hands without taking damage but with a sanity cost. Extinguishing a fire herself will cause her to lose 20 sanity and preventing a fire herself should cost 10 sanity, because she doesn't like doing it. (Putting out burning things drains 20 sanity, putting out smoldering things drains 10 sanity) This means that she could immediately rush to a fire and stop it without having to look for Ice or Manure.
• As for Bernie, I don't really know. If I were the devs, I would have never added Bernie at all or would have given Bernie an actually useful ability like have it stand up and attempt to put out nearby smoldering items. Just a small buff, I think Bernie should give a little bit of sanity restoration or reduce the rate at which you lose sanity if inside your inventory or nearby dropped on the ground. Maybe it's just fine that Bernie is useless.
• With these changes, Willow becomes an invaluable character for summer survival and during lightning strikes. And instead of being the griefer, she will become the anti-griefer, now that she can freely extinguish fires.

I'd appreciate any criticism, I know my perspective and ideas are not perfect.

[ButterStuffed]

Why do people want total immunity to fire back. I don't understand it. I've literally never been in a situation where I think "Hey, total immunity to fire would be real useful right now." Even if I did find myself in such a situation I would just get some buddies to help me knock down the Dragonfly and make myself some scalemail.

[JohnWatson]

On 11/11/2016 at 5:27 AM, Weird Wanderer said:

Why do people want total immunity to fire back. I don't understand it. I've literally never been in a situation where I think "Hey, total immunity to fire would be real useful right now." Even if I did find myself in such a situation I would just get some buddies to help me knock down the Dragonfly and make myself some scalemail.

How about, instead of returning her fire immunity, she gets a passive upside like having a 1.5x duration multiplier for the fuel she puts in Fire Pits and have everything she cooks (through Crock Pot or Fire Pits) become 100% fresh after cooking regardless of their previous state of spoilage. This would make her better for managing the camp since she gets less potential to waste resources.

[Arlesienne]

2 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Bernie is pretty much useless and is a pathetic excuse for an upside. Willow and any other character would be completely fine without the existence of Bernie in the game. Whenever I see a Willow player, the first thing they do is drop Bernie next to the Fire Pit because Bernie is just a waste of inventory space. The addition of Bernie doesn't even make any sense gameplay-wise as he is not related to anything Willow is supposed to be good at. I guess lore-wise he makes sense since Willow seems intended to be a childish woman, but come on, why is Bernie's ability so useless.

Again? Have you experienced Bernie's not-so-recent buff? He defends all people now. And as far as I know, there is no limit on the number of Bernies in the world, provided you don't leave them on the ground for three days in a row.

Lore-wise, Bernie makes sense as just another solution to Willow's abandonment-derive issues (it's pretty much agreed she used to live in an orphanage prior to the asylum over her pyromania, which is prevalently derived from problems mentioned above).

My point is: yes, Willow is weaker than other characters, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY HER (caves, sanity restoration, exploration, pushing crockpots/racks, nightmare defence, more efficient lifesaver lights), but the way you're wording your suggestions doesn't really work. It's very condescending and lacks balance. You're giving us impossibly strong statements instead of being moderate. So this will probably go nowhere.

[JohnWatson]

16 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Again? Have you experienced Bernie's not-so-recent buff? He defends all people now. And as far as I know, there is no limit on the number of Bernies in the world, provided you don't leave them on the ground for three days in a row.

Lore-wise, Bernie makes sense as just another solution to Willow's abandonment-derive issues (it's pretty much agreed she used to live in an orphanage prior to the asylum over her pyromania, which is prevalently derived from problems mentioned above).

My point is: yes, Willow is weaker than other characters, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY HER (caves, sanity restoration, exploration, pushing crockpots/racks, nightmare defence, more efficient lifesaver lights), but the way you're wording your suggestions doesn't really work. It's very condescending and lacks balance. You're giving us impossibly strong statements instead of being moderate. So this will probably go nowhere.

Well, it's just what I think. And also, if I remember correctly, I played Willow the most in singleplayer. She's pretty much just Wilson except she can't grow a beard and has less sanity. I almost never made use of her sanity restoration and fire immunity because they're extremely situational abilities. Willow stopped me from crafting any torches because of her infinite torch, and that's pretty much it. "You do not know how to play her" is a pretty irrelevant statement since you just play her like any other character, her stats don't really deviate that much from Wilson's stats.

Also remember that to make use of Bernie's ability, you have to be insane enough to aggro Shadow Creatures. A character like Wolfgang or Wigfrid can still farm Shadow Creatures without the use of Bernie because of their dps and resistance. Even if you could get enough Beard Hair to decorate your entire camp with Bernies, he would still be useless you could just manage your sanity instead of going insane for no reason. That Beard Hair would be better spent on Meat Effigies.

16 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

It's very condescending and lacks balance. You're giving us impossibly strong statements instead of being moderate. So this will probably go nowhere.

What does this even mean? Sorry, but I don't care if my statements sounds "condescending" or "strong", that's kinda your problem not mine. And if I keep my wording "moderate", then what's the point of saying what I think? I'm not gonna limit what I say just to sound "moderate".

If you disagree with anything I suggest for the game, then specify to me what you disagree on and explain why, and even better suggest an alternative to my suggestion. I listen and I can be convinced, but don't tell me to go "moderate" or whatever that's even supposed to mean.

[Arlesienne]

20 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Well, it's just what I think. And also, if I remember correctly, I played Willow the most in singleplayer.

 

Singleplayer and multiplayer Willows are two different Willows, next to no comparison. Also, you didn't really highlight it's what you think. You stated your first post ex cathedra and that's the issue.

20 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

She's pretty much just Wilson except she can't grow a beard and has less sanity. I almost never made use of her sanity restoration and fire immunity because they're extremely situational abilities. Willow stopped me from crafting any torches because of her infinite torch, and that's pretty much it. "You do not know how to play her" is a pretty irrelevant statement since you just play her like any other character, her stats don't really deviate that much from Wilson's stats.

I cannot agree with them being extremely situational abilities. First of all, the game evolves around light. Characters lose sanity at night. However Willow can easily restore it without needing silk, food, flowers and so on through what she has to use anyway - that is fire. She gets the most sanity from the star-caller's staff and is the only character gaining sanity from nightmare lights, making her a fine character for spelunking even when soloing in DST. Wilson has an easier time due to no drawbacks, but personally, I consider his fairly no-fuss gameplay rather bland. I find Willow enticing through her personality and the fact she's generally harder than other characters (like Wigfrid and Wickerbottom, who could use a nerf).

In singleplayer, you had all the stuff in the world. In DST, you share the world with people. And let's face it, many newbies compulsively pick flowers on the very first day (then you have to hunt butterflies to plant a few for the beebox). Similarly, some don't keep a few spider nests around, but go full genocide the moment they see them. Prototyping ultimately runs out. Not every server has access to the cave content.

And here comes Willow, who can go just fine with her sanity even in a world utterly bereft of flowers, silk and cave things. She just needs to do what you have to do anyway, that is light a fire.

Stats don't matter much, although it really is easier to govern sanity and insanity with Willow - she can farm nightmare fuel after going insane easily (because Bernie is here), and then quickly jump back simply through fire - which stacks.

20 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Also remember that to make use of Bernie's ability, you have to be insane enough to aggro Shadow Creatures. A character like Wolfgang or Wigfrid can still farm Shadow Creatures without the use of Bernie because of their dps and resistance. Even if you could get enough Beard Hair to decorate your entire camp with Bernies, he would still be useless you could just manage your sanity instead of going insane for no reason. That Beard Hair would be better spent on Meat Effigies.

I'm afraid you're not quite understanding me here. In DST, at some point this year, Bernie received the ability to defend anyone from nightmares. That means you just plop Bernie down next to your insane pal and everybody benefits. Wigfrid is actually a rather poor example of shadow farming due to her soulstealer ability, but that's not the point. You are saying Bernie is "useless", whereas he has a reason to exist - even beyond plot reasons. Yes, it would be fun if he was a bit faster (I slightly edit him through the LUA), yes, he could be even more interesting, but stating he's useless is way too harsh.

You cannot assume somebody is going insane for no reason. Too little data. Nightmare fuel is very important. Personally I host a lot on various servers and the players veritably never make effigies. They use touchstones, telltale hearts and amulets.

Why?

Because while costing the same 40 HP of the maker, the heart gives back 80 sanity and is much cheaper when it comes to the effigy (3 grass, 1 gland, 40 HP versus 4 boards, 4 beard hair and 40 HP). Yes, you need/want to use a booster shot after the heart, but there's no need to build a prestihatitator. Making hearts is unlimited as long as you restore your health through eating or sleeping. Au contraire, you can't have more than five effigies without destroying them to regain your capped health. The effigy is somewhat less useful in DST than it is in DS. I feel like you come primarily from DS and hence these misconceptions.

20 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

I don't care if my statements sounds "condescending" or "strong", that's kinda your problem not mine. And if I keep my wording "moderate", then what's the point of saying what I think? I'm not gonna limit what I say just to sound "moderate".

If you disagree with anything I suggest for the game, then specify to me what you disagree on and explain why, and even better suggest an alternative to my suggestion. I listen and I can be convinced, but don't tell me to go "moderate" or whatever that's even supposed to mean.

You want to participate in a discussion. And so, normal rules of the famous politeness theory apply. You want to be hear out rather than ignored "This guy uses such strong wording discussing things with him won't do anything". You use words like "useless", "pathetic", "childish". They're too strong in this case. Moderation is the ability to get our message across without inspiring overly powerful feelings. Believe me, you will be more respected if you state your point in a gentler way. In fact, you should care how people read you, because that's the point of having a conversation.

There is a member who once, let's say, needed to work on this aspect. But he matured a good deal and now gets upvotes, because he is respectful to others and their viewpoints.

 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

3 hours ago, Weird Wanderer said:

Why do people want total immunity to fire back. I don't understand it. I've literally never been in a situation where I think "Hey, total immunity to fire would be real useful right now." Even if I did find myself in such a situation I would just get some buddies to help me knock down the Dragonfly and make myself some scalemail.

Standing next to fires can give you more sanity whilst not harming you. Scalemail doesn't have to be useful for every character, especially if it's a multiplayer game, and considering it's kind of expensive as pig skin isn't so easy to obtain, due to pigs respawning only every 4 days (so, each player would need 12 monster meat to feed to 3 pigs just to get one scalemail). Plus, it fits her pyromania, lets you run through something if it's burning with no problems and just be fun in general to have that immunity.

[Frosty_Mentos]

Maybe wilson idea to buff him is nice, but breaks the lore tho. Willow doesn't need any buff by my opinion, Bernie is actually super great on farming shadows or protection from shadows while fighting deerclops

I honestly still think that klei won't change anything, you just gotta get good at willow or wilson

[Arlesienne]

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Standing next to fires can give you more sanity whilst not harming you. Scalemail doesn't have to be useful for every character, especially if it's a multiplayer game, and considering it's kind of expensive as pig skin isn't so easy to obtain, due to pigs respawning only every 4 days (so, each player would need 12 monster meat to feed to 3 pigs just to get one scalemail). Plus, it fits her pyromania, lets you run through something if it's burning with no problems and just be fun in general to have that immunity.

Wholeheartedly agreed. In fact, scalemail actually has worse protection than a logsuit (70% vs 80%). And while it looks cool, the fact it ignites the attacker is difficult to control when you're wearing it while fighting hounds in the camp.

You bought my heart with the last sentence though !

[Frosty_Mentos]

Scale mail is a willow thing

[JohnWatson]

On 11/11/2016 at 8:02 AM, Arlesienne said:

Singleplayer and multiplayer Willows are two different Willows, next to no comparison. Also, you didn't really highlight it's what you think. You stated your first post ex cathedra and that's the issue.

I don't think they're that much different. DST Willow is just be a weaker version of DS Willow, having most of her strengths watered down. Actually makes her more similar to Wilson now that she lost her fire immunity.

Quote

I cannot agree with them being extremely situational abilities. First of all, the game evolves around light. Characters lose sanity at night. However Willow can easily restore it without needing silk, food, flowers and so on through what she has to use anyway - that is fire. She gets the most sanity from the star-caller's staff and is the only character gaining sanity from nightmare lights, making her a fine character for spelunking even when soloing in DST. Wilson has an easier time due to no drawbacks, but personally, I consider his fairly no-fuss gameplay rather bland. I find Willow enticing through her personality and the fact she's generally harder than other characters (like Wigfrid and Wickerbottom, who could use a nerf).

In singleplayer, you had all the stuff in the world. In DST, you share the world with people. And let's face it, many newbies compulsively pick flowers on the very first day (then you have to hunt butterflies to plant a few for the beebox). Similarly, some don't keep a few spider nests around, but go full genocide the moment they see them. Prototyping ultimately runs out. Not every server has access to the cave content.

And here comes Willow, who can go just fine with her sanity even in a world utterly bereft of flowers, silk and cave things. She just needs to do what you have to do anyway, that is light a fire.

Stats don't matter much, although it really is easier to govern sanity and insanity with Willow - she can farm nightmare fuel after going insane easily (because Bernie is here), and then quickly jump back simply through fire - which stacks.

The last time I played Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together was back in 2014, I guess I forgot a lot. But now that you mention it, I did fully utilize her easy-to-manage sanity. I guess she's good for players who can't manage their sanity easily, but it still feels like an underwhelming upside for a character. She gains up to 10 sanity per minute when standing next to a single fire source. It doesn't really seem like much especially since you can just eat food or sleep to regain sanity. And her lack of fire immunity prevents the tactic where you light multiple fires close to each other to gain a large sanity boost.

Also, isn't it better to have someone else other than Willow use Bernie for farming Shadow Creatures? Willow freezes when insane and a character with higher dps like Wolfgang would probably be better for attacking Shadow Creatures since he would do it faster.

Quote

I'm afraid you're not quite understanding me here. In DST, at some point this year, Bernie received the ability to defend anyone from nightmares. That means you just plop Bernie down next to your insane pal and everybody benefits. Wigfrid is actually a rather poor example of shadow farming due to her soulstealer ability, but that's not the point. You are saying Bernie is "useless", whereas he has a reason to exist - even beyond plot reasons. Yes, it would be fun if he was a bit faster (I slightly edit him through the LUA), yes, he could be even more interesting, but stating he's useless is way too harsh.

Yes, he has a use if one of your buddies don't know how to manage their sanity, but that really seems too situational. I guess Bernie could be used to make farming Nightmare Fuel a little easier. But I still  don't get why the devs even added Bernie at all, thinking that he would make up for heavily nerfing Willow. Bernie doesn't really make up for losing fire immunity and the infinite lighter, and his abilities don't even seem related at all to Willow's abilities and not even fire.

Quote

You cannot assume somebody is going insane for no reason. Too little data. Nightmare fuel is very important. Personally I host a lot on various servers and the players veritably never make effigies. They use touchstones, telltale hearts and amulets.

Why?

Because while costing the same 40 HP of the maker, the heart gives back 80 sanity and is much cheaper when it comes to the effigy (3 grass, 1 gland, 40 HP versus 4 boards, 4 beard hair and 40 HP). Yes, you need/want to use a booster shot after the heart, but there's no need to build a prestihatitator. Making hearts is unlimited as long as you restore your health through eating or sleeping. Au contraire, you can't have more than five effigies without destroying them to regain your capped health. The effigy is somewhat less useful in DST than it is in DS. I feel like you come primarily from DS and hence these misconceptions.

Yeah, I did play Don't Starve primarily, and I only played DST for one month during around the start of its Early-Access stage. The Meat Effigy does seem a little worthless because of the existence of the Telltale Heart. Maybe buff the Meat Effigy by having it cost no health to build and resurrect in, or I guess nerf the Telltale Heart.

I dislike how Bernie requires Beard Hair to craft, but I like how it requires Wilson to make them. Maybe it would make more sense if Bernie was made more useful.

Quote

You want to participate in a discussion. And so, normal rules of the famous politeness theory apply. You want to be hear out rather than ignored "This guy uses such strong wording discussing things with him won't do anything". You use words like "useless", "pathetic", "childish". They're too strong in this case. Moderation is the ability to get our message across without inspiring overly powerful feelings. Believe me, you will be more respected if you state your point in a gentler way. In fact, you should care how people read you, because that's the point of having a conversation.

There is a member who once, let's say, needed to work on this aspect. But he matured a good deal and now gets upvotes, because he is respectful to others and their viewpoints.

Oh, I didn't understand what you wanted to say, didn't know that it was because of my choice of words. I did not mean to induce negative feelings with them, I just use words which I believe most appropriately shows what I think. I really have to disagree with you on being moderate with words. This forum seems supposed to be a light-hearted place, disallowing people from swearing. But I actually admire people more when they don't care about how people perceive them and just want to get their honest message across. If swearing was allowed here, I would have scattered cuss words all around my posts already. They're not there to cause negativity, but rather because I feel more comfortable using them and I think they make you seem more confident in what you say.

"This guy uses such strong wording discussing things with him won't do anything" doesn't really sound like my problem. You shouldn't jump to conclusions just because of someone's choice of words. As I said, I listen and I can be convinced.

Inspiring powerful feelings is exactly what I want when people read my statements, I don't know why that would be such a bad thing. It causes people to tell me what they honestly think, which means that it will be better for the discussion overall. If strong words provide strong responses, then I'd gladly use them more. And I'd rather be honest than vague.

-----

Anyway, I still think that characters like Wigfrid and Wendy should be nerfed, or alternatively have Wilson and Willow buffed. If people choose to play a character for the reasons "he/she is overpowered", "he/she is easier to play as", or "he/she is better than others", then you know there's balancing issues.

[Frosty_Mentos]

2 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Also, isn't it better to have someone else other than Willow use Bernie for farming Shadow Creatures? Willow freezes when insane and a character with higher dps like Wolfgang would probably be better for attacking Shadow Creatures since he would do it faster.

Yes, he has a use if one of your buddies don't know how to manage their sanity, but that really seems too situational. I guess Bernie could be used to make farming Nightmare Fuel a little easier. But I still  don't get why the devs even added Bernie at all, thinking that he would make up for heavily nerfing Willow. Bernie doesn't really make up for losing fire immunity and the infinite lighter, and his abilities don't even seem related at all to Willow's abilities and not even fire.

Welp, clearly if anyone else will have him it wouldnt make sense, and if he wouldnt be in the picture it wouldn't be a part of the lore right now. Bernie is extremely good, if you join into your favorite server and you are a willow, one of objectives is to have low sanity for some chill, if you have no weapon or atleast can't be distracted by shadows you can have a tank friend to distract them (not talking about wigfrid). Its a live saver to people who can't deal with Shadow farming due to low health or having no equipment. The only and sorta best she can do is cook anywhere and protect people from insanity.

The reason why she made random fire because when she was nervous she just felt cold too, amd she didn't control herself, now when there is a lot of people with her (sane or not) she can control herself and helped to be controlled.

The previous Willow sucked more honestly, she could instantly burn the whole base in moments, the current willow if more of a survivor of the harsh conditions, which could be as powerful as wigfrid, might even out best her at that.

I was active at 3 of these topics already, people gotta put this to rest, honestly. If you can't live with a current willow then just play with other character, since others are so "good". I only main Willow and i know how she works, if you can't handle the conditions you shouldnt blame all on her or klei, since, you know *echem*wes*echem*

[Donke60]

Just now, JohnWatson said:

is forum seems supposed to be a light-hearted place, disallowing people from swearing. But I actually admire people more when they don't care about how people perceive them and just want to get their honest message across. If swearing was allowed here, I would have scattered cuss words all around my posts already. They're not there to cause negativity, but rather because I feel more comfortable using them and I think they make you seem more confident in what you say.

"This guy uses such strong wording discussing things with him won't do anything" doesn't really sound like my problem. You shouldn't jump to conclusions just because of someone's choice of words. As I said, I listen and I can be convinced.

Inspiring powerful feelings is exactly what I want when people read my statements, I don't know why that would be such a bad thing. It causes people to tell me what they honestly think, which means that it will be better for the discussion overall. If strong words provide strong responses, then I'd gladly use them more. And I'd rather be honest than vague.

Dear Mr. John Watson

decisions should be made on logic and reason not emotion.

I like willow i think your debuffs gives her more dynamics a lot better in DST than in DS. I consider Wilson the bar character nothing can go to far above or below him. Wilson does serve as the being tutorial or like training character for newbies or people that don't like taking riskes. Also beard hair scarves that sounds really disgusting and already puts pressure on a valuable resource. So thats why I advise against your suggestions.

P.S I think @EuedeAdodooedoe you can safely retire now I think we have found your replacement

 

Best Regards

Donke60

 

[JohnWatson]

21 hours ago, Mantas said:

Welp, clearly if anyone else will have him it wouldnt make sense, and if he wouldnt be in the picture it wouldn't be a part of the lore right now.

The reason why she made random fire because when she was nervous she just felt cold too, amd she didn't control herself, now when there is a lot of people with her (sane or not) she can control herself and helped to be controlled.

Sorry, I don't really care about reasoning with lore. I'd prefer keeping the discussion gameplay-related only.

Quote

Bernie is extremely good, if you join into your favorite server and you are a willow, one of objectives is to have low sanity for some chill, if you have no weapon or atleast can't be distracted by shadows you can have a tank friend to distract them (not talking about wigfrid). Its a live saver to people who can't deal with Shadow farming due to low health or having no equipment. The only and sorta best she can do is cook anywhere and protect people from insanity.

Yes, she has those uses, but as I said, they're underwhelming. Why do I need Bernie to save me if I can just manage my sanity? Managing sanity as Willow is even easier with her sanity restoration from fire, so Bernie has even less use for me. Why would I try to farm Shadow Creatures at low health and without equipment?

Why do I need my lighter to cook anywhere if I could just plop down a really cheap Campfire as any other character? The lighter also has durability and can be lost, you won't be sure it's available all the time. A Campfire would be better and is necessary you build one anyway if the night catches you outside, far away from home.

Quote

The previous Willow sucked more honestly, she could instantly burn the whole base in moments, the current willow if more of a survivor of the harsh conditions, which could be as powerful as wigfrid, might even out best her at that.

Uh, the current Willow is heavily nerfed from her previous state, I don't understand why you think she's better despite having technically worse stats. And she only lights fires occasionally at 60 sanity. Again, this is not a problem if you can manage your sanity.

And there's things like this, this, this, and this which really proves that singleplayer/pre-nerf Willow is far superior than her current state in DST.

Saying that Willow is the survivor of harsh conditions and can be more powerful than Wigfrid are also just very ridiculous statements. Willow's stats is just having 3-second fire immunity and fire sanity restoration, how does that make her "the survivor of harsh conditions". Every character in the game is practically "the survivor of harsh conditions", I don't get your point. Oh, Willow being better than Wigfrid is just plain wrong, a quick look at their stats and abilities compared to each other easily proves this.

Quote

I was active at 3 of these topics already, people gotta put this to rest, honestly. If you can't live with a current willow then just play with other character, since others are so "good".

These are just really bad arguments, sorry. You can't deny a topic just because people talked about it before, doesn't make sense and I am pretty sure their suggestions differ from mine. And what's the point of having an entire "Suggestions and Feedback" forum if we shouldn't share ideas for the game, resist any form of change suggested, and just "live with it"?

A: "Hey I don't like this single aspect of the game, I have an idea on how to improve it."

B: "If you can't live with this game in its current state, then just play another game."

A: "..."

Quote

I only main Willow and i know how she works, if you can't handle the conditions you shouldnt blame all on her or klei, since, you know *echem*wes*echem*

I don't see how any of this is relevant.

-----

19 hours ago, Donke60 said:

decisions should be made on logic and reason not emotion.

Yeah, why are you telling me this? I don't see how any of this is relevant.

Quote

I like willow i think your debuffs gives her more dynamics a lot better in DST than in DS.

I don't get what this is supposed to mean. An explanation would be nice, I guess.

Quote

I consider Wilson the bar character nothing can go to far above or below him. Wilson does serve as the being tutorial or like training character for newbies or people that don't like taking riskes.

The problem is that Wilson is underwhelming compared to other characters. His upside is only beneficial to himself.

Also, I think powerful characters like Wigfrid serves as a better "tutorial mode" character because of her bonus damage crutch which makes the game easier. I also don't think that Wilson should only exist as a tutorial mode character in Don't Starve Together. In Don't Starve, maybe yes, but not in DST. There's really no point in having a tutorial character especially since all characters are unlocked from the start.

Quote

Also beard hair scarves that sounds really disgusting and already puts pressure on a valuable resource. So thats why I advise against your suggestions.

On another forum where I posted this, people also said that they would never wear it because it's disgusting. I don't know about you people, but I'd wear beard hair around my neck if it's gonna keep me from dying, even if it gets itchy.

Maybe instead of a Beard Hat or a Beard Scarf, how about a wearable Fake Beard? Seems a little less disgusting, right? Come on, why doesn't anyone want to wear Wilson's beard.

Quote

P.S I think @EuedeAdodooedoe you can safely retire now I think we have found your replacement

Best Regards

Donke60

What

[Arlesienne]

I will only respond to the still-open matter of the kind of discussion here.

9 hours ago, JohnWatson said:

Oh, I didn't understand what you wanted to say, didn't know that it was because of my choice of words. I did not mean to induce negative feelings with them, I just use words which I believe most appropriately shows what I think. I really have to disagree with you on being moderate with words. This forum seems supposed to be a light-hearted place, disallowing people from swearing. But I actually admire people more when they don't care about how people perceive them and just want to get their honest message across. If swearing was allowed here, I would have scattered cuss words all around my posts already. They're not there to cause negativity, but rather because I feel more comfortable using them and I think they make you seem more confident in what you say.

"This guy uses such strong wording discussing things with him won't do anything" doesn't really sound like my problem. You shouldn't jump to conclusions just because of someone's choice of words. As I said, I listen and I can be convinced.

Inspiring powerful feelings is exactly what I want when people read my statements, I don't know why that would be such a bad thing. It causes people to tell me what they honestly think, which means that it will be better for the discussion overall. If strong words provide strong responses, then I'd gladly use them more. And I'd rather be honest than vague.

Don't take me wrong, but you're a very young person, aren't you?

Honesty and retaining face are not mutually-exclusive. In fact they go side-by-side. Compare these two sentences:

A: Bernie is pretty much useless and a pathetic excuse for an upside.

B: In my humble opinion, Bernie is not too useful. He's little of an upside.

Which creates a sense of the author being moderate and thus open to reasoning?

In written speech, there is no possibility of seeing anything but the portrait you paint yourself through words. With a friend standing next to you, you can be fine with them stating "Idiot" if they're grinning confidentially, because you have other signs which allow you to discern they do not wish to be rude, but are teasing you instead. In forum communication, you are and will be judged by how you express yourself through words alone. It's hard, agreed, but essential in discussion.

You are a social animal. There's no way to blatantly ignore how you make people feel. I'm afraid you went overboard with Emerson's theories here. You want to discuss something? You have to care about the impact of how you convey your message.

Admiration of vulgarity... No. I cannot agree. I cannot fathom that. I know young people may remain under the fallacious impression swearing makes you tough and cool, but it doesn't work this way. Anyone mature will be more perceptive to one who doesn't need obscenities to express themselves. It's a godsend the moderators here try to uphold some standards of decorum. I and many others would have a horrible time without that.

 

[JohnWatson]

16 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Honesty and retaining face are not mutually-exclusive. In fact they go side-by-side. Compare these two sentences:

A: Bernie is pretty much useless and a pathetic excuse for an upside.

B: In my humble opinion, Bernie is not too useful. He's little of an upside.

Which creates a sense of the author being moderate and thus open to reasoning?

I don't know you keep trying to push this "moderate" thing. If a person needs to have a "moderate" choice of words before you take their statements seriously, then that's a problem with yourself, not them.

But to answer your question, I'd respond to both statements in the same way regardless of their wording. Because I don't care about irrelevant matters such as having to worry if my wording is "moderate" enough. It doesn't matter, you're just inventing a problem that nobody cares about. I'm sorry, but that's really just how I see what you're doing. I can understand why you believe that strong words should not be used, but you need to understand that you're the only one who cares about such a non-issue.

16 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

In written speech, there is no possibility of seeing anything but the portrait you paint yourself through words. With a friend standing next to you, you can be fine with them stating "Idiot" if they're grinning confidentially, because you have other signs which allow you to discern they do not wish to be rude, but are teasing you instead. In forum communication, you are and will be judged by how you express yourself through words alone. It's hard, agreed, but essential in discussion.

But I'm criticizing a game mechanic, not a person. I can be harsh to it as much as I want because it doesn't have emotions I could affect. And besides, I'm not the person that will tend to say insults in a forum, serious or not. I usually just discuss ideas and never make things personal as I have no interest in such discussions (basically, internet is not my life).

So, unless you're telling me to be nice to a virtual teddy bear, I don't see anything wrong about criticizing a game mechanic. While you could reason that I could be affecting the game developers' feelings, I believe that the devs are already mature adults who wouldn't bother themselves with such matters.

16 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

You are a social animal. There's no way to blatantly ignore how you make people feel. I'm afraid you went overboard with Emerson's theories here. You want to discuss something? You have to care about the impact of how you convey your message.

No, I'm not trying to avoid conformity here just for the sake of it. I just believe that the best way to express yourself is to be as honest as you can appropriately be. If you have a problem with what I say, then tell me. However, I think that your problem with what I say shouldn't concern me because I find it ridiculous that I should restrain from certain words just because they "inspire strong feelings". It doesn't have to me as much of an issue as you make it out to be.

16 hours ago, Arlesienne said:

Admiration of vulgarity... No. I cannot agree. I cannot fathom that. I know young people may remain under the fallacious impression swearing makes you tough and cool, but it doesn't work this way. Anyone mature will be more perceptive to one who doesn't need obscenities to express themselves.

I don't admire vulgarity itself, but rather I admire those who speak honestly, letting nothing limit what they say. And I have never seen anyone use profanity just to look tough and cool, maybe kids do, but people swear for many other reasons. Profanity is pretty much a part of language already, and when used, they're usually to announce an emotion or exaggeration not to express their original meaning. They're pretty much almost like a laugh, a cry, or a scream as they can be used to express emotion, whether negative or positive. Obscenities can be used to exaggerate or intensify your statement (a dysphemism). They can be used to show an atmosphere of trust, which is why people will tend to swear more around people they're familiar to or comfortable with. I don't understand why some people act like profanities are the scum of the earth or something, I'd actually argue that it is more mature to accept swearing more than to shun it. Remember that highly-respected individuals like leaders, scientists, doctors, and educators still swear. People just have different levels of acceptance to swearing.

And of course people who swear a lot could communicate without profanities. I'm doing it right now, of course I wouldn't swear if it's inappropriate. Disallowing profanities doesn't really filter out the abusive or the immature, it just makes them less susceptible of harassing others, which is probably why they aren't allowed here.

-----

Anyway, I'd like it better if we were on-topic. I would not appreciate any more posts regarding moderation of wording because I think it's a silly issue and it shouldn't be discussed here.

[JohnWatson]

On 11/11/2016 at 8:31 AM, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Standing next to fires can give you more sanity whilst not harming you. Scalemail doesn't have to be useful for every character, especially if it's a multiplayer game, and considering it's kind of expensive as pig skin isn't so easy to obtain, due to pigs respawning only every 4 days (so, each player would need 12 monster meat to feed to 3 pigs just to get one scalemail). Plus, it fits her pyromania, lets you run through something if it's burning with no problems and just be fun in general to have that immunity.

Oh, and fire immunity lets you do this. Can't be done in DST because Willow has no fire immunity. Apparently, it was removed in DST because you could give burning items from your inventory to other players, and it would set them on fire, which can be used for griefing. Not sure if that's the real reason why, someone just informed me.

 

[Michi01]

On 11.11.2016 at 1:06 PM, JohnWatson said:

Whenever I see a Willow player, the first thing they do is drop Bernie next to the Fire Pit because Bernie is just a waste of inventory space

Maybe they drop it there in case someone goes insane in the base?

[JohnWatson]

16 hours ago, Michi01 said:

Maybe they drop it there in case someone goes insane in the base?

Yeah, they probably do. But I'm not so sure about having Bernie lie around there for anyone to take. I do drop it too next to the Fire Pit whenever I play as Willow because I feel like someone else could benefit more from Bernie than I can.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

29 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

Oh, and fire immunity lets you do this. Can't be done in DST because Willow has no fire immunity. Apparently, it was removed in DST because you could give burning items from your inventory to other players, and it would set them on fire, which can be used for griefing. Not sure if that's the real reason why, someone just informed me.

 

Why not simply remove the burning in your inventory and not the immunity itself? I mean, those are completely different features in and of themselves. Even if coding one results in another, one could surely be coded to not be there, whilst the other stays (remove burning stuff in inventory whilst keep the fire immunity). So the "lighting fire in your inventory" thing cannot be a statement against fire immunity in and of itself.

[JohnWatson]

16 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Why not simply remove the burning in your inventory and not the immunity itself? I mean, those are completely different features in and of themselves. Even if coding one results in another, one could surely be coded to not be there, whilst the other stays (remove burning stuff in inventory whilst keep the fire immunity). So the "lighting fire in your inventory" thing cannot be a statement against fire immunity in and of itself.

I don't know, different people solve things in different ways. Though, I agree that removing fire immunity is not the best solution. It would be better if they just made it so that burning items cannot be given to others players.

Though, the ability to gain more DPS than Wolfgang as Willow could be problematic and overpowered. Maybe the max amount of damage multiplier bonus you get from burning items in your inventory should have a set cap so that you can't kill the Deerclops in 4 hits.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

5 minutes ago, JohnWatson said:

I don't know, different people solve things in different ways. Though, I agree that removing fire immunity is not the best solution. It would be better if they just made it so that burning items cannot be given to others players.

Though, the ability to gain more DPS than Wolfgang as Willow could be problematic and overpowered. Maybe the max amount of damage multiplier bonus you get from burning items in your inventory should have a set cap so that you can't kill the Deerclops in 4 hits.

Just... not being able to burn items in your inventory can deal with this very easily, so just have that removed. It's extremely over powered, imho that you can actually burn stuff from within your inventory.

I guess a bit more complex methods could be added in, but we know how people are with complexity and this game typically V_V

[DVGMedia]

On 11/11/2016 at 7:54 AM, JohnWatson said:

) become 100% fresh after cooking regardless of their previous state of spoilage. This would make her better for managing the camp since she gets less potential to waste resources.

she is a master chef after all  at least according to her code  which allows her to cook on her lighter

 

[JohnWatson]

16 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Just... not being able to burn items in your inventory can deal with this very easily, so just have that removed. It's extremely over powered, imho that you can actually burn stuff from within your inventory.

Though, your damage is increased for every inventory slot containing a burning item, so this must be an intended mechanic that was just never clearly explained and stated anywhere. I don't know how this mechanic fits in DST, but maybe you're right that a huge damage multiplier bonus for little cost is overpowered.

16 hours ago, EsaiXD said:

she is a master chef after all  at least according to her code  which allows her to cook on her lighter

I don't really think so. The devs probably just added that mechanic because people complained that Willow's Lighter is useless now that it has durability. I still think it's not useful since I would rather just build a Campfire if I wanted to quickly cook something.

Though, maybe you could say that Willow cooks good because her abilities are related to fire. I would actually like it if she gets a buff in regards to cooking. (she needs all the buffs she can get)

[Donke60]

Still waiting for when the buff Wes