(how to) fix big delay when using caves

[StarvedKasad]

Hello guys and girls,

I'd like to ask if anyone knows a way to fix the huge delay that is added when playing with caves. I tried to use a mod that disables movement prediction but there are other huge implications when using this mod (like disabling the queue mod) ,so I'd like to ask you,do you know any other way to fix the huge delay?
Obviously finding a better pc is not the case as both my laptop and my pc with efficiency ratio of at least 1:2 makes no difference.

Perhaps a fix from klei would be appropriate instead..

[Auth]

Sorry man, but playing with caves does require a beefy computer, and clearly yours aren't exactly the most beefy.

[StarvedKasad]

17 minutes ago, Weirdobob said:

Sorry man, but playing with caves does require a beefy computer, and clearly yours isn't exactly the most beefy.

I mentioned in the OP that both my laptop and my desktop computer have the same delay.We're talking about ~100 ping on the desktop.It has a fethom II processor,8 gb ram and a gtx 560. I wouldn't call him a monster,but it can play fallout 4 just fine,so...

[Faintly Macabre]

1 hour ago, StarvedKasad said:

I mentioned in the OP that both my laptop and my desktop computer have the same delay.We're talking about ~100 ping on the desktop.It has a fethom II processor,8 gb ram and a gtx 560. I wouldn't call him a monster,but it can play fallout 4 just fine,so...

Running server software has a limited number of parallels to running a stand-alone game; worse still if you're running the server software and playing the game at the same time. It just takes more juice to keep things completely smooth than an average machine has.

[StarvedKasad]

13 minutes ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Running server software has a limited number of parallels to running a stand-alone game; worse still if you're running the server software and playing the game at the same time. It just takes more juice to keep things completely smooth than an average machine has.

I have no lag at all,I have delay.No rubberbanding as well..I also tried to minimize the map from default to small on both surface and caves to no avail.Something is not well done with the code or I have bad setting

[Faintly Macabre]

7 minutes ago, StarvedKasad said:

I have no lag at all,I have delay.No rubberbanding as well..I also tried to minimize the map from default to small on both surface and caves to no avail.Something is not well done with the code or I have bad setting

I'm not sure what the difference is to you between lag and delay, but if you can play a game without caves just fine and adding caves hinders the experience, I don't know what you think could be going on other than just not having the power you need to do it.

[Muche]

Hosted single-level world runs in the same process that handles client stuff.

Hosting multi-level world adds two background server processes (one for each shard). They don't need client stuff, so they require less memory than client process, but there are two of them.
Thus hosting world with caves uses roughly double the memory, triple the CPU power, and triple disk access, when compared to hosting a world without caves.

What does the task manager/process explorer say about memory/cpu/disk usage when you host a world with caves?

[StarvedKasad]

I'll make some tests and tell you in a moment,

[StarvedKasad]

Single player no caves:

31% cpu

1 gb ram

Single player caves:

30% cpu

1.3 gb ram

 

So it's deffinitely some coding problem going on here..barely 200 mb more and I'm having 0.5 seconds delay every time I move.

[StarvedKasad]

Sorry for spam,but I just installed a mod called "infusion" where they simply port the ruins and caves on the surface.The game runs smoothly (not that caves did not) but there is no lag.I wonder if this is horrible coding afterall..

[DarkXero]

The mod isn't called "infusion". This is the mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=503187227

The difference between no caves / caves is that with no caves, you are the server, so your inputs aren't queued or anything. The only delay here is tied to frame rate. With caves however, you connect via lan to a self hosted dedicated server.

I can personally tell the difference. It may be a less than a second delay, maybe less than a half second, but it's there. Now the question is if this is intended because I have a wireless router and therefore, ping isn't really zero, or because somehow zero ping isn't zero ping.

Now, @StarvedKasad, have you ever played on a server and felt that you were like actually hosting the game? 

[StarvedKasad]

20 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

The mod isn't called "infusion". This is the mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=503187227

The difference between no caves / caves is that with no caves, you are the server, so your inputs aren't queued or anything. The only delay here is tied to frame rate. With caves however, you connect via lan to a self hosted dedicated server.

I can personally tell the difference. It may be a less than a second delay, maybe less than a half second, but it's there. Now the question is if this is intended because I have a wireless router and therefore, ping isn't really zero, or because somehow zero ping isn't zero ping.

Now, @StarvedKasad, have you ever played on a server and felt that you were like actually hosting the game? 

Thanks for clarifying this.

I personally join Klei servers from time to time to meet new people and I have almost the exactly same delay on both the servers and my own hosted game (always talking about hosts with caves).

It's this 0.3~0.5 seconds added to the action input whenever there are caves that just make the game not as enjoyable as without caves.

[DarkXero]

1 hour ago, StarvedKasad said:

It's this 0.3~0.5 seconds added to the action input whenever there are caves that just make the game not as enjoyable as without caves.

Try adding

-tick 60

to Set Launch Options, after right clicking DST in your Steam Library, then going to Properties.

You may want to enable movement prediction for this one though (in case you have prediction disabling mods).

[StarvedKasad]

5 hours ago, DarkXero said:

Try adding

-tick 60

to Set Launch Options, after right clicking DST in your Steam Library, then going to Properties.

You may want to enable movement prediction for this one though (in case you have prediction disabling mods).

I set in launch options -tick 60 and I'm not sure if I see an improvement (no no-lag mods are enabled as you instructed). What does this command do exactly?

 

I set in launch options -tick 60 and I'm not sure if I see an improvement (no no-lag mods are enabled as you instructed). What does this command do exactly?

 

Edit: tried three different tick options tested on my laptop

-tick 60 some slight action delay improvement

-tick 20 made the game worse by adding 0.5 delay 

-tick 120 no visible improvement over 60

-tick 240 no visible improvement over 60

I'll test these on my desktop too see if there's any difference.

Edit#2: No difference on desktop as well.

[DarkXero]

3 hours ago, StarvedKasad said:

I set in launch options -tick 60 and I'm not sure if I see an improvement (no no-lag mods are enabled as you instructed). What does this command do exactly?

Sets the tick rate for the server.

"A single update of a game simulation is known as a tick. The rate at which the simulation is run on a server is referred often to as the server's tickrate; this is essentially the server equivalent of a client's frame rate, absent any rendering system."

DST supports [ 10 | 15 | 30 | 60 ] rates. With 15 being the default.

3 hours ago, StarvedKasad said:

-tick 20 made the game worse by adding 0.5 delay 

-tick 120 no visible improvement over 60

-tick 240 no visible improvement over 60

Those don't do anything and set your rate at 15.

 

@Onirian, you too try doing the same.

Up your tick rate to 60, and enable movement prediction, then check your FPS on your base.

[StarvedKasad]

40 minutes ago, DarkXero said:

Sets the tick rate for the server.

"A single update of a game simulation is known as a tick. The rate at which the simulation is run on a server is referred often to as the server's tickrate; this is essentially the server equivalent of a client's frame rate, absent any rendering system."

DST supports [ 10 | 15 | 30 | 60 ] rates. With 15 being the default.

Those don't do anything and set your rate at 15.

 

@Onirian, you too try doing the same.

Up your tick rate to 60, and enable movement prediction, then check your FPS on your base.

I have close to 60 fps (it sometimes goes down to 59). It's not about the performance of my graphics card in both machines

[DarkXero]

17 minutes ago, StarvedKasad said:

I have close to 60 fps (it sometimes goes down to 59). It's not about the performance of my graphics card in both machines

I'm tagging Onirian, because for some reason, having 2000 logs on screen can dunk your FPS from 60 to 25. But if you have the 60 tick rate, then it goes from 60 to 55.

I also have the same delay happening to me. It isn't graphics related. Or maybe it's network related. Or maybe it's both at the same time. We can only wait until improvements are made. Maybe with the PS4 version release.

 

[Onirian]

@DarkXero, I will try this ! I'm ok to test anything that can help ^^.

[StarvedKasad]

7 hours ago, DarkXero said:

I'm tagging Onirian, because for some reason, having 2000 logs on screen can dunk your FPS from 60 to 25. But if you have the 60 tick rate, then it goes from 60 to 55.

I also have the same delay happening to me. It isn't graphics related. Or maybe it's network related. Or maybe it's both at the same time. We can only wait until improvements are made. Maybe with the PS4 version release.

 

Maybe caves require an entire new type of coding.I'd even go as far as suggesting to keep caves above ground,in a location near the map as a second "island" map so it doesn't have to run two different instances.In other words a huge unified map.

[DarkXero]

That was suggested many times during the time caves weren't out. But that would require an extensive rewriting of many things, and would put a huge strain for the single server since you would have a single server manage 30000 entities instead of 12000. And the maps would have to be heavily reduced to fit. And nobody wants to touch worldgen. So it's most likely it's not going to happen.

[StarvedKasad]

12 hours ago, DarkXero said:

That was suggested many times during the time caves weren't out. But that would require an extensive rewriting of many things, and would put a huge strain for the single server since you would have a single server manage 30000 entities instead of 12000. And the maps would have to be heavily reduced to fit. And nobody wants to touch worldgen. So it's most likely it's not going to happen.

I see thanks.The other thing I think might be the issue is the default delay of the server.From my experience I recall battlenet of warcraft 3 had a similar problem .The default delay was at least 100 ms and they wouldn't change it unless you used third party apps.

Maybe that's the case here as well?

[DarkXero]

It is possible, after all, we should have 0 ping.

Then again it may be a wireless router problem, but I don't have a ethernet cable to test.

[StarvedKasad]

16 hours ago, DarkXero said:

It is possible, after all, we should have 0 ping.

Then again it may be a wireless router problem, but I don't have a ethernet cable to test.

I tried hosting it offline/lan and it didn't change anything.

[Onirian]

I'll try the -tick 60, but do not see visible change. Not this time ^^ (but good try, and I let it ^^)