Maxwell Shadows in DST sucks.

[RetroGamerr]

Why Shadows are changed in Together? They are usless, i dont want them to chop every tree on sight, i want them to help me. Basically any other shadow than fighter is usless and annoying. Shadows worked just fine in original Maxwell, can we have them back?

[Axehilt]

Never got to experience him in Don't Starve, but they certainly could behave a little better in DST.

Trying to do it without new UI but in a clear way would be the challenge.  Most improvements to their behavior would come with some drawback for players used to their existing behavior.

For example they could be changed so that when I have a mining pick equipped my clicks against minable things command my shadow miners to mine those things.  If my shadows are behind me, relative to the target, they get a temporary speed boost so that most times they'll rush past me to begin mining before I even reach the target. They'll continue mining until (a) it's gone, (b) I click something else mineable, or (c) I unequip the pick (and of course: (d) they die.)  Note that switching away from my pick functions as a cancel button.

The problem with this setup being that while it's simple and elegantly avoids UI, it's hard for players to naturally discover how it works.  I guess the description of the Shadow Miner in its crafting tab might be able to teach it: "Summons a shadow who will mine your mining targets as long as you have a pickaxe equipped."   A bit long, but it communicates the two key traits.

The advantage with this setup is your shadows would now be directly controlled by you.  You'd be walking, see a rock, and click it, and your shadow(s) would rush ahead of you, starting mining before you even reached the rock.

[GiddyGuy]

2 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

For example they could be changed so that when I have a mining pick equipped my clicks against minable things command my shadow miners to mine those things.

I'd rather have this for chopping trees so they only target the fully grown trees, I don't see the problem with them going for any rocks since they have infinite durability (but do have a life span) pickaxe, and you get everything from the rock, no downsides like you get half, or what not.

[Axehilt]

3 minutes ago, GiddyGuy said:

I'd rather have this for chopping trees so they only target the fully grown trees, I don't see the problem with them going for any rocks since they have infinite durability (but do have a life span) pickaxe, and you get everything from the rock, no downsides like you get half, or what not.

Well the assumption is whatever behavior change would be universal.  So having my pickaxe out commands my miner shadows, while having my axe out commands my woodcutter shadows.

I guess that leads to a further refinement of the idea though, where any tool/weapon switch cancels their current command.  The reason this is important is because most tools are also weapons (and so should be usable to command shadow fighters), so when I switch from Spear to Axe, the game should know to cancel the fighter's order. 

Still one important edge case to solve though: tool consumption. If my spear runs out of durability in battle, I still want my shadows to fight for me, but it'd still be nice to have some way to get them to abort.  I suppose I forget case (e) I distance myself too far from the target, which would also cause the command to be cancelled.

[GiddyGuy]

2 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

Well the assumption is whatever behavior change would be universal.  So having my pickaxe out commands my miner shadows, while having my axe out commands my woodcutter shadows.

yeah sorry that's way more better and refined, I was just voicing my opinion but I don't really mind if it worked for both,

4 minutes ago, Axehilt said:

Still one important edge case to solve though: tool consumption. If my spear runs out of durability in battle, I still want my shadows to fight for me, but it'd still be nice to have some way to get them to abort.  I suppose I forget case (e) I distance myself too far from the target, which would also cause the command to be cancelled.

also I could be wrong but I remember @Chris1488 mentioning dancing to cancel attacking shadows that are attacking players, might work with other shadows.

[DarkXero]

I would say

There's even a proof of concept.

You can control them with right click to make them neutral and not target stuff.

Or give them items to do that task until you make them neutral.

[StarvedKasad]

On 5/8/2016 at 4:18 PM, RetroGamerr said:

Why Shadows are changed in Together? They are usless, i dont want them to chop every tree on sight, i want them to help me. Basically any other shadow than fighter is usless and annoying. Shadows worked just fine in original Maxwell, can we have them back?

From my experience it's exactly the opposite.I use 3 shadow puppets for chop,mine and dig and I find totally useless the work of spear puppets.The spear puppets die almost instantly to almost anything in the game.For 35% sanity drain they:

-Die on tier 2 spider nests

-Instantly die on tentacles

-Instantly die from Giants (of course)

-Die if being attacked by at least 2 frogs

-Die from a bee nest.

Shadow puppets also instantly die on earthquakes which is ridiculous.

So to my eyes,the spear puppet is completely and utterly useless.If I can befriend a pig or a bunny for the same job,why not just grab armor and do it myself than wasting precious nightmare fuel and sanity.Literally!

[Frosty_Mentos]

Shadow duelers and any other shadows are as based as from singleplayer, they are like maxwells copies with a small proportions of he's mind, there is nothing to nerf for him since he is just like from ds. Besides, he is even better than before, he is basically better than Woodie like 5 times, also the workers aren't meant to be for fighting, they only do work and can't get agroed by creatures. So yeah, my opinion that Maxwell is perfect as he is, and possibly one of the best characters for being useful for gathering resources

[JakeCompton]

On 5/30/2016 at 6:51 AM, StarvedKasad said:

From my experience it's exactly the opposite.I use 3 shadow puppets for chop,mine and dig and I find totally useless the work of spear puppets.The spear puppets die almost instantly to almost anything in the game.For 35% sanity drain they:

-Die on tier 2 spider nests

-Instantly die on tentacles

-Instantly die from Giants (of course)

-Die if being attacked by at least 2 frogs

-Die from a bee nest.

Shadow puppets also instantly die on earthquakes which is ridiculous.

So to my eyes,the spear puppet is completely and utterly useless.If I can befriend a pig or a bunny for the same job,why not just grab armor and do it myself than wasting precious nightmare fuel and sanity.Literally!

I was going so say this. It is very much the opposite. It's insulting that the duelists cost 35% sanity (15% more than others) and they can't even kill spiders that well. The woodcutters and pickaxe shadows are amazing. They allow him to gather resources faster than any other character. Max never has to carry an axe, pickaxe, the gold types, let alone even prototype them because his minions have endless durability. Overall, his shadows are pretty useful, the shovel minion is very situational, and the dueler costs so much for so little.

Earthquakes are ridiculous tho. The shadows should either make an independent attempt to dodge debris, or just take no damage from debris.

[ScootyPuffJr]

10 hours ago, JakeCompton said:

Earthquakes are ridiculous tho. The shadows should either make an independent attempt to dodge debris, or just take no damage from debris.

Completely agree on that point, trying to make sure both you and the shadows avoid all the falling rocks is functionally impossible.  Maybe it wouldn't be quite so awful if they refunded like, one nightmare fuel on death but that'd probably be a bigger balance issue...