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Woodie, and Woodie as a whole.


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The inclusion of Woodie in DST made me very anxious to play again, but I realized some of the changes are in fact a hindrance to players not on a pvp server, the nerfs make sense in a pvp envirement, but otherwise woodie has no real significant upside besides Lucy, which is not much. I'm just going to suggest a slight change to his werebeaver form for multiplayer.

 

In werewolf folklore/stories it is told silver bullets can kill one, but since their is no silver in Don't Starve, why not gold? I think eating 1-3 peices of gold should instantly transform woodie back to his normal self.

 

I have a hard time with the sanity loss on a full moon as the log meter starts at 0 and drains quickly, I know it is a curse, but atleast give a better benefit to being in werebeaver form other than destroying trees and rocks in an instant, I say regen health and hunger very slightly when eating in werebeaver form (logs and such) to balance that major loss out, the only way to come back from that disaster is a top hat or a flowers. In which case I do not want the sanity to be tweaked, i believe it's fine. (perhaps only on a full moon?)

 

Woodie players in pvp never go into beaver form to fight as it is beneficial to stay as woodie, but being in beaver form is only really useful for mowing down bosses in singleplayer, in which case werebeaver form should have a tanking affect in multiplayer, perhaps natural defense? Something like log suit defense. 

 

If all of these were implemented of course I can see woodie being kinda OP, which is why these are all seperate, if just one is added I would be ecstatic. Not to get my hopes up of course, I just see woodie now as the most gimmicky character yet, and it's strange.

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I have to agree that Woodie needs to be changed a bit. He's my favorite character because I think it's funny that he's a werebeaver and that he's a lumberjack and all so I was really upset when I found out how much of a hindrance the werebeaver form is. It is supposed to be a curse so it makes sense for him to go insane and have to constantly eat wood to keep it at bay, but when he goes werebeaver he's pretty much useless. All he can do is eat trees really fast which is fine I guess and it makes sense, but other people, like Wendy, have really powerful abilities that just help with survival. Woodie's werebeaver form can't be used to help defend against dog attacks or anything anymore. The beaver form is definitely way too strong in single player, but in DST it's too underpowered. I like your idea of giving him more defense. That way you can maybe tank monsters while other players attack. 

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i like the natural defense armor as well. Also the logs to health conversion would be cool too. With all this health and armor hes like a tank, but this should make his sanity poop low. (High health low sanity kind of player.) Also if he is op in dst for being tanky, his weakness should be to things, sleep, and trees. He sleeps in one dart (for 5-15 seconds) and cannot be woken by anything. Also maybe if you chop trees it damages his sanity 1 chop = 1-3 sanity loss (only beaver mode)

-has a lovely axe (lucy faster chopping)

-terrible secret (beaver curse, armor, log to health, loss of sanity, limitations of tree chopping)

-is a heavy sleeper (as beaver if hit by a sleep dart (or sanity reaches 0) he falls asleep for 5-15 seconds and melee doesnt wake him. as woody, if he goes to sleep he cannot be woken up until after 15-30 seconds in a tent/roll.)

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I can get behind a bit of natural armor buff in the werebeaver form for DST since you take actual damage (he gets about 25% damage reduction currently when transformed I believe?), but that's honestly it, no gimmicks, no other changes are needed.

 

However, IF he were to get one other tweak in his transformed state, it would need to be determined what it is being balanced for...

PvP? - Maybe a touch more attack power so he hits closer to/on par with a basic spear per attack

PvE? - a TINY reduction in the speed of sanity loss while in the form, and I mean really TINY, to the point where nobody would even really notice if it wasn't mentioned.

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I just want an option girl non pvp games to play single player woodie.

Edit: this should be an option for all modified chars in coop games.

 

Why on Earth would you want single player Woodie in DST? Don't you remember what happens with the single player werebeaver? ALL items drop, you can't transform back to normal at will with logs/twigs, you fall asleep after transforming back, etc etc. That is just begging to be griefed by players or wrecked by the game's many enemies.

 

You do NOT want single player Woodie in co-op, you really don't. Same goes for single player WX-78, and especially Willow.

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Why on Earth would you want single player Woodie in DST? Don't you remember what happens with the single player werebeaver? ALL items drop, you can't transform back to normal at will with logs/twigs, you fall asleep after transforming back, etc etc. That is just begging to be griefed by players or wrecked by the game's many enemies.

You do NOT want single player Woodie in co-op, you really don't. Same goes for single player WX-78, and especially Willow.

Single player woodie had significant strengths and weaknesses. Current woodie is at best mediocre and at worst a challenge character. There is really no advantage to his wereform, when there used to be one.

Woodie sucks during full moons, wastes wood to keep his meter up, and sucks during the summer due to not being able to shave his beard.

He has less dramatic strengths and weaknesses than single player, which becomes more dramatic weaknesses than anything.

Compare him to willow or wigfrid, and you see similar utility as willow and less use to the group as wigfrid.

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@Toros

I would hardly call DST Woodie mediocre at best

 

1) He clears forests extremely fast by himself (so fast that werebeaver sanity loss really won't hurt his sanity too much because he'll change back for gnawing on things) 

2) His sanity is easy to keep very high since planting pinecones / birch nuts gives him sanity now.

3) You can become human during full moons again instead of being stuck waiting it out in werebeaver (getting Glommer is actually possible now)

4) Also a big one here in a multiplayer environment, especially if you join later in a server's life - Werebeaver form can be a good makeshift way to mine rocks / dig up things when finding flint in a timely manner isn't viable for whatever reason.

 

The summer thing is hardly a problem since he'll burn just as easily as any of the other cast. It is really negligible

 

 

Compare that to his single player variant, which in DST's gameplay changes, would leave him unfairly vulnerable as I pointed out above

 

- Dropping ALL of your items on werebeaver transformation, especially if you are not in a good spot (near catcoons, fire, greedy players, etc etc). 

- Falling asleep after becoming human again (after being forced to take damage or wait out the wood meter since you can't return to human form at will) - which will at the very least hurt you very badly with the changes to sleep in multiplayer, not to mention the fact that it would trigger the groggy / waking up status in DST, making it pretty much a death sentence if you were already under attack. And that's not even assuming you didn't wake in the middle of the darkness cycle of the day, in which case Charlie WILL kill you since you would have dropped all your items.

 

There is no way single player Woodie would work in any way/shape/form in multiplayer. Arguing about how his wood meter works in multiplayer is a rather negligible thing too since it really isn't particularly taxing to stay out of transformation territory.

 

Furthermore, comparing anyone to Wigfrid is a losing battle due to how absolutely minor her one drawback is, and how OP her boons are. She is a very easy mode character.

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@Toros

I would hardly call DST Woodie mediocre at best

1) He clears forests extremely fast by himself (so fast that werebeaver sanity loss really won't hurt his sanity too much because he'll change back for gnawing on things)

2) His sanity is easy to keep very high since planting pinecones / birch nuts gives him sanity now.

3) You can become human during full moons again instead of being stuck waiting it out in werebeaver (getting Glommer is actually possible now)

4) Also a big one here in a multiplayer environment, especially if you join later in a server's life - Werebeaver form can be a good makeshift way to mine rocks / dig up things when finding flint in a timely manner isn't viable for whatever reason.

The summer thing is hardly a problem since he'll burn just as easily as any of the other cast. It is really negligible

Compare that to his single player variant, which in DST's gameplay changes, would leave him unfairly vulnerable as I pointed out above

- Dropping ALL of your items on werebeaver transformation, especially if you are not in a good spot (near catcoons, fire, greedy players, etc etc).

- Falling asleep after becoming human again (after being forced to take damage or wait out the wood meter since you can't return to human form at will) - which will at the very least hurt you very badly with the changes to sleep in multiplayer, not to mention the fact that it would trigger the groggy / waking up status in DST, making it pretty much a death sentence if you were already under attack. And that's not even assuming you didn't wake in the middle of the darkness cycle of the day, in which case Charlie WILL kill you since you would have dropped all your items.

There is no way single player Woodie would work in any way/shape/form in multiplayer. Arguing about how his wood meter works in multiplayer is a rather negligible thing too since it really isn't particularly taxing to stay out of transformation territory.

Furthermore, comparing anyone to Wigfrid is a losing battle due to how absolutely minor her one drawback is, and how OP her boons are. She is a very easy mode character.

1) Clearing forests quickly isn't very useful, because I have never needed much wood after settling down near beefalo. Rapidly mining stone would be an actually useful ability.

2) Sanity is not difficult to manage period, so rapidly gaining sanity after doing a semi-useful task is not that great.

3) In a multiplayer environment, anyone else could get the flower. It doesn't need to be woodie.

4) This is an extreme edge-case, and I don't think the average player will ever benefit from it.

The multiplayer environment was far /more/ friendly to the way woodie was in single player, because wereform was great against bosses and there are other players to pick up his drops.

Really, he's basically like wilson who provides no beard hair in exchange for faster chopping, and wastes the first half of each full moon eating wood and planting trees.

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1) Clearing forests quickly isn't very useful, because I have never needed much wood after settling down near beefalo. Rapidly mining stone would be an actually useful ability. 2) Sanity is not difficult to manage period, so rapidly gaining sanity after doing a semi-useful task is not that great. 3) In a multiplayer environment, anyone else could get the flower. It doesn't need to be woodie. 4) This is an extreme edge-case, and I don't think the average player will ever benefit from it.
 

 

1) Yes, it is, there's a lot of things besides campfires that use logs, and unless you are living on a base with no chests, you will need wood, and lots of it.

 

2) This is correct, for any seasoned player, sanity will never be an issue, but it is nice to be able to control it at your discretion

 

3) Yes, anyone COULD, but not necessarily WILL, get the flower. The self-reliance of being able to now get it while playing as Woodie is a nice thing to have.

 

4) Situational maybe, but extreme? Not really. Wilderness servers tend to not be reset very often (if at all for the surprising number that have 1000 - 10000+ days), so it's not uncommon to be surviving on grass / twigs while you try to find a corpse/camp. Survival servers, though resetting far too often, also tend to have any nearby resources quite stripmined if there are players already there before you join. Endless... well those tend to be heavily modded, which not everyone would want to be on, but the same situation can apply.

 

The multiplayer environment was far /more/ friendly to the way woodie was in single player, because wereform was great against bosses and there are other players to pick up his drops.

 

Did you completely miss the part about how sleeping works in DST? As soon as werebeaver form ends, if something was attacking him, they WILL kill Woodie if you use the single player variant. They will get free shots at him while he is asleep, and running away, particularly from bosses, will be nigh impossible while he is still groggy and shaking off the fatigued status effect AND while trying to recover his dropped gear.

 

And you are depending on other players to be nice about your items / have room to lug your entire inventory? I wouldn't trust the average random DST player with a stack of cut grass, much less my food, armor, weaponry, and the like. 

 

 

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Your forgetting other really important benefits of werebeaver

 

Night vision and immunity to freezing (And I think overheating also)

 

Night vision is super helpful if your trying to find something in the dead of night, especially in the middle of winter.

 

Woodie can be a lifesaver if everyones thermal stones are about to break and you need someone to make that trek to the rock area to get more.

 

 

While I do have to agree that woodie's combat capabilities are now lacking compared to his single player variant, his current design is not without it's own benefits.

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1) Yes, it is, there's a lot of things besides campfires that use logs, and unless you are living on a base with no chests, you will need wood, and lots of it.

2) This is correct, for any seasoned player, sanity will never be an issue, but it is nice to be able to control it at your discretion

3) Yes, anyone COULD, but not necessarily WILL, get the flower. The self-reliance of being able to now get it while playing as Woodie is a nice thing to have.

4) Situational maybe, but extreme? Not really. Wilderness servers tend to not be reset very often (if at all for the surprising number that have 1000 - 10000+ days), so it's not uncommon to be surviving on grass / twigs while you try to find a corpse/camp. Survival servers, though resetting far too often, also tend to have any nearby resources quite stripmined if there are players already there before you join. Endless... well those tend to be heavily modded, which not everyone would want to be on, but the same situation can apply.

Did you completely miss the part about how sleeping works in DST? As soon as werebeaver form ends, if something was attacking him, they WILL kill Woodie if you use the single player variant. They will get free shots at him while he is asleep, and running away, particularly from bosses, will be nigh impossible while he is still groggy and shaking off the fatigued status effect AND while trying to recover his dropped gear.

And you are depending on other players to be nice about your items / have room to lug your entire inventory? I wouldn't trust the average random DST player with a stack of cut grass, much less my food, armor, weaponry, and the like.

1) There are things that use wood, but you really do not need very much for the first few weeks, maybe 15 trees, and if you camp by beefalo (as many characters do) you end up burning a lot more trees than you chop.

2) So we agree it is nice but rarely relevant.

3) This makes woodie less bad than before, but still worse than any other character when it comes to glommer flower gathering. It's not a plus for him.

4) Any server worth playing on is not going to punish new players who join late. Any server where going werebeaver at the start helps you survive is not a server worth playing on.

As far as sleeping, yes single player's sleeping was wonky, and there had to be some changes made. Woodie was never too strong though, in any case.

When it comes to dropping inventory, DST is much friendlier because an ally can pick up resources you free, whereas in DS there isn't.

If you don't have an ally... there's nothing stopping you from storing it all in a chest. Woodie never transforms at unpredictable times.

Your forgetting other really important benefits of werebeaver

Night vision and immunity to freezing (And I think overheating also)

Night vision is super helpful if your trying to find something in the dead of night, especially in the middle of winter.

Woodie can be a lifesaver if everyones thermal stones are about to break and you need someone to make that trek to the rock area to get more.

While I do have to agree that woodie's combat capabilities are now lacking compared to his single player variant, his current design is not without it's own benefits.

None of the benefits you listed are important, and the situation you used as example is laughable, for the same reasons.

Nightvision? Torch.

Cold insulation? Clothing

Heat? Clothing.

Even in the scenario you suggested transforming is not going to make things easier, and you'll have to waste a lot of resources compensating for the sanity loss.

There is no scenario where a moderately skilled player would want to transform into werebeaver as DST woodie.

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Even in the scenario you suggested transforming is not going to make things easier, and you'll have to waste a lot of resources compensating for the sanity loss.

There is no scenario where a moderately skilled player would want to transform into werebeaver as DST woodie.

 

- when you have more then enough sanity (pros usually have)

- when you like to get your first flints from boulders but don't ve a pickaxe or cannot craft one

- when you like to hunt other player during night down :-D

- when you just like to eat something else or destroy bases

- when you are bored

- .................................................

 

One big thing, which Klei definitely made wrong with this character, is that you cannot transform easily back while get hunted by another player. Also the chance dropping your weapon/tool while transforming can cause your death. This character is for sure just for fun and also does make fun ;-)

 

 

 

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