Player damage balancing

[Toros]

I think instead of making player damage so weak, certain mobs and bosses should have buffed damage and/or health and/or AI

It shouldn't take two spear hits to kill a bunny, and ganging up on a pigman should be pretty effective.

However, bosses should still be as tough or tougher, giving players a reason to band together for big threats, instead of having to grind through basic monsters.

For example, spiders, birds, and rabbits should be just as easy as in singleplayer.

Pigmen and merms, should have 1.5x as much health

Hounds, terrorbeaks and Werepigs should have 2x as much health

Beefalo and crawling horrors should have 2.5x as much health, and Deerclops/treeguards should have 3x as much, and have AI that targets heat/light sources and structures made of wood if the deerclops/treeguard is out of sight.

Basically, I think the experience will be more fun if trivial enemies remain trivial, but the AI and difficulty of tougher creatures is improved.

That way, it's not harder for players to survive non-cooperatively (and hunt), but a boss appearing becomes a server wide threat that will continually cause trouble until dealt with.

[Luxurious]

They should definitely bring back one shot kills for boomerangs as it takes 2 hits to kill smaller enemies. I must disagree on buffing bosses. At least not THAT much. Even if players do gang up on them, they still have a 6000 HP pool which is insane. Terrorbeaks and Crawling horrors should be fixed first. They are currently almost impossible to defeat as it spawns up to 4 of them and they disappear before you can even kill one.

[Ridley]

Ganging up on a pig man or were wolf is pretty effective, though I can handle them by myself. Although, the number one thing combat needs right now is the delay removed when attacking. 

[Toros]

They should definitely bring back one shot kills for boomerangs as it takes 2 hits to kill smaller enemies. I must disagree on buffing bosses. At least not THAT much. Even if players do gang up on them, they still have a 6000 HP pool which is insane. Terrorbeaks and Crawling horrors should be fixed first. They are currently almost impossible to defeat as it spawns up to 4 of them and they disappear before you can even kill one.

6k hp is easy. Get a treebro or 29 gunpowder.

Or a couple ice staves and a herd of beefalo.

Shadow monsters are bugged so they don't die, which is why they suck.

Ganging up on a pig man or were wolf is pretty effective, though I can handle them by myself. Although, the number one thing combat needs right now is the delay removed when attacking.

My intention is that some enemies are easier, some are harder, and some are much harder.

Pigs should always be fairly easy. A small hp buff would be about the same as it is now.

My intention is that this would replace the nerfed damage players do now.

[Ridley]

6k hp is easy. Get a treebro or 29 gunpowder.

 

This is not a good plan. When ROG rolls around, Deerclops can freeze the treeguard and blowing creatures up will make you lose the special loot.

[Toros]

This is not a good plan. When ROG rolls around, Deerclops can freeze the treeguard and blowing creatures up will make you lose the special loot.

It takes 30 gunpowder to kill deerclops, so 29 will almost kill him, and then a few darts of spear hits will finish him off, loot intact.

As far as treebros, you can use the ice staff to stun deerclops when he tries to attack, so the treebro can keep beating on him.

[Ridley]

It takes 30 gunpowder to kill deerclops, so 29 will almost kill him, and then a few darts of spear hits will finish him off, loot intact.

As far as treebros, you can use the ice staff to stun deerclops when he tries to attack, so the treebro can keep beating on him.

 

You have to take into account fire damage and any potential damage he may of taken from other mobs. When he goes near my base, I have no way to tell if he was punched or bit a few times from pigs and spiders. You can use gunpowder to weaken, but it really isn't safe.

 

I think that may be AI exploitation, as you can safely kill him the same way but with smallbirds.

[GoshJosh]

I think instead of making player damage so weak, certain mobs and bosses should have buffed damage and/or health and/or AI

It shouldn't take two spear hits to kill a bunny, and ganging up on a pigman should be pretty effective.

However, bosses should still be as tough or tougher, giving players a reason to band together for big threats, instead of having to grind through basic monsters.

For example, spiders, birds, and rabbits should be just as easy as in singleplayer.

Pigmen and merms, should have 1.5x as much health

Hounds, terrorbeaks and Werepigs should have 2x as much health

Beefalo and crawling horrors should have 2.5x as much health, and Deerclops/treeguards should have 3x as much, and have AI that targets heat/light sources and structures made of wood if the deerclops/treeguard is out of sight.

Basically, I think the experience will be more fun if trivial enemies remain trivial, but the AI and difficulty of tougher creatures is improved.

That way, it's not harder for players to survive non-cooperatively (and hunt), but a boss appearing becomes a server wide threat that will continually cause trouble until dealt with.

I disagree and personally believe enemy stats should stay the same. If two people gang up on one pig, then it should die twice as fast/easy. It's not like enemies drop double the loot, so they shouldn't have increased stats. You'd still only get one meat or pig skin from the pig two people attacked together.

 

For example: A Deerclops spawns near me and my friend. We will both gang up on it obviously, which should make it easier to deal with. Shouldn't 2 vs 1 make things easier, realistically? The loot it drops is the same whether or not you soloed the giant or had help. Me and my friend may have killed it in approximately half the amount of time I would spend soloing it, BUT we have to split the loot/food in half and share the Deerclops eye craft-able item (eyebrella?).

 

So my point is...

If the Deerclops is not buffed and drops the same amount of meat, which would be shared between friends, then there is no real problem with it being a little bit easier to defeat when playing cooperatively.

 

...You are working together, after all!...

[GoshJosh]

I do agree that Bunnies and birds should not take more damage than they used too. This damage reduction is causing small issues such as this. But I supposed tweaks must be made to make a game like this work...Don't want to be killed by other players too easily...

[Toros]

You have to take into account fire damage and any potential damage he may of taken from other mobs. When he goes near my base, I have no way to tell if he was punched or bit a few times from pigs and spiders. You can use gunpowder to weaken, but it really isn't safe.

I think that may be AI exploitation, as you can safely kill him the same way but with smallbirds.

You can if you do it right when he spawns, as the odds he takes damage is low.

As far as AI exploitation, that isn't a thing in a game like don't starve. Otherwise baiting an attack and countering would be AI exploitation.

[Ridley]

You can if you do it right when he spawns, as the odds he takes a l

 

3 out of 3 times, he has been spawning at night during a hound attack.

[Toros]

3 out of 3 times, he has been spawning at night during a hound attack.

Interesting. I haven't ever had dogs and deerclops spawn at the same time.

Are you using default season length?

[Ridley]

Interesting. I haven't ever had dogs and deerclops spawn at the same time.

Are you using default season length?

 

No.

[MrNaxeros]

I disagree and personally believe enemy stats should stay the same. If two people gang up on one pig, then it should die twice as fast/easy. It's not like enemies drop double the loot, so they shouldn't have increased stats. You'd still only get one meat or pig skin from the pig two people attacked together.

 

For example: A Deerclops spawns near me and my friend. We will both gang up on it obviously, which should make it easier to deal with. Shouldn't 2 vs 1 make things easier, realistically? The loot it drops is the same whether or not you soloed the giant or had help. Me and my friend may have killed it in approximately half the amount of time I would spend soloing it, BUT we have to split the loot/food in half and share the Deerclops eye craft-able item (eyebrella?).

 

So my point is...

If the Deerclops is not buffed and drops the same amount of meat, which would be shared between friends, then there is no real problem with it being a little bit easier to defeat when playing cooperatively.

 

...You are working together, after all!...

 

I totaly agree with that. There shouldn't be damage nerf nor hp/dmg buff for enemies (at least not too much). Because think about it. What is the point of bringing back normal damage while every mob got hp buff which might make them even harder to kill than with dmage nerf?

 

I can own Deerclops by myself but if I don't have gunpowder I would have a hard time in doing so. And ganging up on him with I dunno, all 4 players should be much easier to kill him... But wait I'm just repeating GoshJosh words.

 

Anyway you get my point.

[Monkey_BBZ]

I disagree and personally believe enemy stats should stay the same. If two people gang up on one pig, then it should die twice as fast/easy. It's not like enemies drop double the loot, so they shouldn't have increased stats. You'd still only get one meat or pig skin from the pig two people attacked together.

 

For example: A Deerclops spawns near me and my friend. We will both gang up on it obviously, which should make it easier to deal with. Shouldn't 2 vs 1 make things easier, realistically? The loot it drops is the same whether or not you soloed the giant or had help. Me and my friend may have killed it in approximately half the amount of time I would spend soloing it, BUT we have to split the loot/food in half and share the Deerclops eye craft-able item (eyebrella?).

 

So my point is...

If the Deerclops is not buffed and drops the same amount of meat, which would be shared between friends, then there is no real problem with it being a little bit easier to defeat when playing cooperatively.

 

...You are working together, after all!...

I agree with this statement completely. The singleplayer game was balanced around the singleplayer experience. As opposed to other games where more people makes the workload easier, you both need to work harder to keep each other alive at this point than in the original.

The only thing that really needs to be balanced in terms of gameplay is stunlocking, which is something that wasn't possible without pigs or bunnymen.

[ChadBroChill17]

It seems to me that there would be a better way of balancing than nerfing player damage. I don't think that multiplayer should be any easier than singleplayer but currently it is much more difficult and when you add in server lag it is even more difficult. My friends and I generally resort to using beefalo, treeguards and pigmen in order to fight hounds and deerclops because their damage can kill much faster than ours. I think part of the idea of multiplayer find new and interesting ways to cooperatively tackle challenges but currently it seems to be more about kiting enemy mobs around neutral mobs.

[saltychipmunk]

It seems to me that there would be a better way of balancing than nerfing player damage. I don't think that multiplayer should be any easier than singleplayer but currently it is much more difficult and when you add in server lag it is even more difficult. My friends and I generally resort to using beefalo, treeguards and pigmen in order to fight hounds and deerclops because their damage can kill much faster than ours. I think part of the idea of multiplayer find new and interesting ways to cooperatively tackle challenges but currently it seems to be more about kiting enemy mobs around neutral mobs.

 

Well of course there is, the nerfed damage is probably a place holder. but the more cleaver way to dothings is buff different mobs in ways that better follow their theme.

 

for example:

spiders: just make nests spawn more of them makes it harder to just over power them if you mess up and agro a nest.

hounds : same deal spawn more

 

giants/ tree guards and other high hp enemies: just give them more hp

 

make some monsters faster so they are harder to kite . stuff like that.

 

[GoshJosh]

I totaly agree with that. There shouldn't be damage nerf nor hp/dmg buff for enemies (at least not too much). Because think about it. What is the point of bringing back normal damage while every mob got hp buff which might make them even harder to kill than with dmage nerf?

 

I can own Deerclops by myself but if I don't have gunpowder I would have a hard time in doing so. And ganging up on him with I dunno, all 4 players should be much easier to kill him... But wait I'm just repeating GoshJosh words.

 

Anyway you get my point.

Thanks MrNaxeros, glad you agree. Why change something that already works and makes sense.

[DukeSusaku]

Actually, both ideas have a good point.

 

As already mentioned of , the game would be more fun if the enemys get stronger depended on the player number. But also it should be more easy to survival because the players work together. Why not find a good balance between fighting together and the benefit the players have to do so?

 

My suggestion would be to increase the health and the loot dependend on the players that participate at the fight against an Enemy.

 

For example if only one Player starts the fight against a Pig, it should have normal HP and normal loot.

If 2 Players fight against a Pig, the HP and the Loot should be increased a little bit to make it worth for both of it. Otherwise without the increased loot, 2 players theoretically have to kill twice as much enemys to feed themselves.

 

(Maybe this could be done if the game checks how many players are near the enemy before the first attack starts to adjust the enemys health and loot.)

 

The Loot / Health doesn't have to be equivalent to the player number but if for example a pig has 1.2x more health and drops 1 more meat if 2 players fight against it, it wouldn't be a bit more challenging but also more worth it to work together.

 

Of course there shoud be a fixed limit because 10 players fight against 1 pig with 5x more health shouldn't drop 10 pieces of meat hm?

 

But as I mentioned it has to be balanced well.