PVP / Griefing

[DrowEnthusiast]

So I decided to be hostile on a server that had no password and was flagged for PVP.

This completely is against my normal play style and I felt a little  bad about it, but ultimately both groups had fun so it was cool. They are good guys and I will probably play with them for real.

 

Anyways, the PVP is a bit slow. I think that there should be a damage multiplier for when you hit another player. We bastically had to stand there and whack each other for a minute before one of us ran away as health got low. We were both wearing log armor and a pig hat.

 

Also, Willow can pretty much burn down a server with no penalty.

 

I really dont know how this can be balanced or really if it even has to be balanced. Don't Starve isnt really intended to be a PVP game. I just wanted to report my findings.

 

I am very much enjoying participating in the beta. I hope to keep giving imput!

[Monkey_BBZ]

This is why you bring blowdarts.

[Toros]

DST pvp will never take off without some sort of modded map, something like "Hunger games"

It lacks the necessary depth for a pvp game, where the vast majority of fights are decided by who has better equipment.

In addition, the pace of the game is slow, so either you're fighting in low-tier gear (not exciting) or you spent 2 hours building a base for 10 minutes of fighting.

[Ridley]

I am wondering how possible it is to create a admin mod that:

 

A. Automatically bans anyone who is detected of cheating.

 

B. Automatically kicks anyone who is changing their name a lot ( name changing is a common trick to prevent people from votekicking in tf2 ).

 

C. Easy to use Ban + Kick buttons/command. 

 

D. Records:

 

• Items used as fire fuel by player.
• Items eaten by player.
• Items cooked by player.
• Items in inventory of a player.
• Items dropped by player  so that it can also record:

1. Dropped items eaten by animals.
2. Dropped items ignited. ( So it can record "Items ignited by initially ignited item. ( I drop a stick next to a berry bush, then burn the stick, causing the bush to burn. )
3. Dropped items stolen by Krampus/moles (includes "dingalingaling").
4. Creatures and buildings killed through gunpowder or dropped ignited items.

• Items ignited by player.
• Creatures killed by player (Really looking at Small birds, Chester, and Glommer here).
• Walls damaged by player.
• Items fed by player to animals.
• Items + objects crafted by player. ( Using the only red gem for a fire staff and using it on birds may not make everyone happy)

 

E. Everything recorded comes with a undo button. The 20 grass tufts I burnt by placing a campfire purposely near them will have their position saved. By clicking the undo button, the program checks to see if there is nothing blocking original position, then spawns the grass tufts to their original state. I have not worked out the best way to bring items back in, but I would imagine some form of shadow chest that disappears after being opened, while preserving the items until then.

 

F. Can allow the server host to grant other players the power to kick/ban/undo (creation of admins).

 

G. Backs up server saves automatically (every ten days or so, only backs up three files at a time or something).

 

 

I do not know how practical most of this stuff is. I have programming knowledge but it pales in comparison to anything Klei can do or the community mod makers I am sure. One problem I wouldn't know how to handle is the possible file size of the players activities being recorded. A busy player could accumulate a lot of date I imagine. I want public play to be preserved and want to try making this monster to do it. I am afraid I lack the dedication and actual knowledge to do so though. 

[Monkey_BBZ]

I feel that the current (or near future) method of kicking/banning players is fine with me, just a simple command/list and the player's gone. It'd be too hard to make an entire anti cheat system, and people would find ways to circumvent them. Not only this, but the server owner has priority over files, meaning that files in your game will not be used.

[Ridley]

I feel that the current (or near future) method of kicking/banning players is fine with me, just a simple command/list and the player's gone. It'd be too hard to make an entire anti cheat system, and people would find ways to circumvent them. Not only this, but the server owner has priority over files, meaning that files in your game will not be used.

 

It is not a entire anti cheat system, it is mostly a slight protection from cheating with a undo button for griefing. Right now, you have to hard reset a server. With this, you can press a button. No cheat protection is what I experience on tf2 valve servers, and that is terrible. Plus, the tf2 vote menus are either bugged or hacked because they do not work properly.

 

Person eating a deerclops eye? Undo.

Burning down berry bushes? Kick, undo.

Rejoins and hammers campfire? Ban, undo.

 

Rapid action against grief attempts without making the server shut down without saving, which would have kicked all players and lost unsaved data.

[Monkey_BBZ]

I like the idea, but I also like the idea that you need to trust people. It's more like Rust or DayZ in the respect that stuff happens and you've just gotta deal with it, rather than TF2 where the entire thing is run in a set environment with set rules.

[delete accoun]

DST pvp will never take off without some sort of modded map, something like "Hunger games"

It lacks the necessary depth for a pvp game, where the vast majority of fights are decided by who has better equipment.

In addition, the pace of the game is slow, so either you're fighting in low-tier gear (not exciting) or you spent 2 hours building a base for 10 minutes of fighting.

 

hunger games would be nice......

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zmv2NxgXaiw/TaE_i_Od6uI/AAAAAAAAAsk/ePRhZO-cvec/s1600/funny-wallpapers-chicken-war.jpg

[Darirol]

DST pvp will never take off without some sort of modded map, something like "Hunger games"

It lacks the necessary depth for a pvp game, where the vast majority of fights are decided by who has better equipment.

In addition, the pace of the game is slow, so either you're fighting in low-tier gear (not exciting) or you spent 2 hours building a base for 10 minutes of fighting.

 

I dont think that there is a need for a gamemechanic rebalance.

 

someone just has to make a mod that fits for the needs of a pvp server.

there are mods out there that allow to start with certain equipment or changes gamemechanics.

 

tbh if you would ask 10 people here what a pvp server should be like, you would probably get 10 completly different answers.

one guy maybe wants unlimited firestaffs and blowdarts as start equipment on a very small map, another maybe wants a prebuild base and again another maybe wants objectives instead of pure kill that other dude.

[greenglacier]

I can see surprisingly many of these troll,griefer topics in the DST forums. I thought that there are less 'aggressive' people in here as everywhere else the web. Was I wrong? 

[Nickboom]

Just got my server griefed by a player named Felipe...wish there was a way to stop this ****...it completely turns me off of public multiplayer. So whats the command to ban players?

 

Just got my server griefed by a player named Felipe...wish there was a way to stop this ****...it completely turns me off of public multiplayer. So whats the command to ban players?

 

[Toros]

I can see surprisingly many of these troll,griefer topics in the DST forums. I thought that there are less 'aggressive' people in here as everywhere else the web. Was I wrong?

Yes.

[greenglacier]

@Dorito- I mean @Toros , well. That was a smooth answer.

[rezecib]

@Nickboom TheNet:Ban(id) where id is the number next to the player in the lower-right with debug information (it's a simple one, just 1, 2, 3 or whatever).

[Toros]

@Dorito- I mean @Toros , well. That was a smooth answer.

Thing is, I've been telling people for weeks that griefing would be a problem.

Bases take time and effort to build, and tend to be extremely vulnerable to wildfires.

So are forests, to be honest.

I've analyzed the game mechanics, and instead of relying on an idealistic idea of human nature, I've looked at other games.

Minecraft: lots of griefing

Rust: lots of griefing

DayZ: lots of griefing

Look at any multiplayer survival game, and you'll see that griefing is a problem on public servers.

Why would Don't Starve be different?

Frankly, why should it?

Problem is that people want the same fun, cooperative experience they get with friends with strangers. That doesn't work.

For people who want the extra challenge of hostile players, public pvp servers are perfect.

[greenglacier]

@Toros So true

[Gotheran]

Honestly my Understanding of DST was that it was aimed to be a private thing more so enjoyed with close friends rather than anonymous strangers on the web, the current server setup I HOPE is only place holder till a more directed form of connection is made available. Often people use Co-op in place of multiplayer when describing a game such as DST, where the most ammount of people there will be is 4 and ideally working together, akin to Left 4 Dead 2. The whole "PvP" side of things isn't really being implemented so you can have gladiatorial bouts, or greif people, it's so if you're starving enough, and you think your friend is holding out on you, you can butcher him and either enjoy the spoils or look like a fool when it turns out he was starving just as badly. Not that gladiatorial combat can't be fun...

[Toros]

Honestly my Understanding of DST was that it was aimed to be a private thing more so enjoyed with close friends rather than anonymous strangers on the web, the current server setup I HOPE is only place holder till a more directed form of connection is made available. Often people use Co-op in place of multiplayer when describing a game such as DST, where the most ammount of people there will be is 4 and ideally working together, akin to Left 4 Dead 2. The whole "PvP" side of things isn't really being implemented so you can have gladiatorial bouts, or greif people, it's so if you're starving enough, and you think your friend is holding out on you, you can butcher him and either enjoy the spoils or look like a fool when it turns out he was starving just as badly. Not that gladiatorial combat can't be fun...

It is absolutely possible (and a blast) to not starve with friends.

Thing is, to do that you set up a private server with a password so it's only your friends.

If you don't have friends who play (or don't have a key) use the forums to network and make some. You're much more likely to find those cooperative players you're looking for that way.

[tenhags]

RE: Ridley #4 post above

 

A.

You need to define specific conditions for an automatic ban, or give those options to the server if they are values or specific actions.

 

B.

Do not allow changing of name within the game. Ban by IP or system ID rather than by a changeable name (record the name with the ID though for the server to identify).

 

C and F.

I concur.

 

G.

I do not want a server backup.

 

D.

Tracking a small number of counts should be trivial to implement with no real impact on performance. The values would change at the rate of gather or destruction, limited by user interface timers and action. The volume of data should be minimal and have no noticeable network bandwidth impact, particularly as the data required is already transmitted. Incrementing a counter is only a few processor cycles and the data storage itself only a few bytes per player.

 

E.

For the "undo", spawn the destroyed materials randomly placed just like a new world. It might be possible with the generator they already have. The quantity generated however would need to be reduced by any actually used to the groups benefit, or it becomes an exploit to replenish intentionally rare resources. If everything regenerates in the normal game anyway, then the "undo" concept becomes moot. The complexity of determining usefully consumed and not replaced versus destroyed by grief and replaced could make this difficult or impossible to implement without unintended, unwanted results.

 

 

When one dies, or leaves the server for any reason, all of their inventory should drop like it does currently in the single player game.

 

 

PVP, the main thread topic:

It's complex as mentioned in another reply to this thread. Do you want further discussion here or in a fresh thread dedicated to it? The initial post will be a page or two long to begin discussion.

 

[CometChaserPleinair]

They should just call PVP MODE, COOP w/ FRIENDLY FIRE kekekeke