smooth-landing

Jump to content

  • Log In with Google Log In with Steam      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Photo
- - - - -

Invisible, Inc. - Update 8 - Feb 12 th


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Jason

    Jason
  • Super Moderator


  • 82 posts

Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:15 AM

The eighth update for the Invisible, Inc. Alpha. 

 

We altered a lot of the previous systems in the game this update, more so than others.  As well, we fleshed out the third corporation some more. Plastech's art has been updated and they now have one of their core threats: the Psi Corp

 

Psi Corp

Having tapped into uncharted areas of the mind, Plastech's Psi corp stands as one of the corps front lines of information protection. Once one of your agents has been linked by a Psi corp mind scan, there's no telling what horrible things can be done to them.

 

Research and Development

After each mission, your agency now earns Research Points based on how far your team was able infiltrate. Spend these Research Points to upgrade your secret base, unlock new items, teams and skills. As Invisible, Inc development continues, more items and skills will become available to research. 

 

Escalating Alarm level

Previously, the alarm had one stage. At 20 points, the Enforcer team would arrive. Now there are several stages. Each stage triggers at 5 points. The effects of each stage differ and start off small but get bigger each time. For example, the current first stage turns on some inactive cameras in the level. The Enforcers still arrive, but they are called in later than the previous system.

 

Peeking MP cost

Peeking uses a point of movement. I imagine this will trip up a lot of veteran players to begin with, as it has probably become second nature to peek everywhere. The intent with this is to make the action of peeking more intentional, and to retain the value of facing, so I hope adapting isn't too painful. 

 

In addition, you can use the peek action anywhere now. It does the same thing as before, but you don't need to be standing near corners or objects to look around edges.

 

Patrol Paths Cleaned up

We've cleaned up the screen a lot by only showing you a guards next turn of movement instead of their entire patrol path. This has the benefit of making your knowledge of what the guards will do even more precise, allowing for more accurate planning.  

 

Guard Icons

The guards have more icons representing their various states of action from investigating (question mark), arresting (exclamation mark), in combat (cross hair), to hunting (binoculars).

 

Disarm your own traps

You can now disarm your shock traps once they have been set. 

 

HUD streamlining

Several HUD elements have changed such as the Combat Panel (condensed) and the location of the ammo counter (above the equipped inventory item).

 

Exploration Bonus

The bonus for exploration of the level has been turned on. Reveal more than 75% of the tiles to earn some extra credits at the end.

 

Change list notes:

  • Plastech corp art updated
  • Plastech Psi core added
  • Research screen for spending metapoints
  • Alarm now has several shorter stages instead of one big one.
  • Peeking uses 1 MP
  • Peeking can be used anywhere, same effect
  • Guard patrol paths only show the next turn of guard movement.
  • More guard icons
  • Shocktraps can be disarmed
  • Combat panel condensed
  • Ammo counter moved above inventory item
  • Exploration Bonus added.


#2 Tripas

    Tripas
  • Member

  • 59 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 04:31 PM

  • Plastech corp art updated
  • Plastech Psi core added

Well, these guys kind of call out for some kind of "status effect" page. Because it's kind of annoying to be attacked by something called a "Psi Link" and have no idea of what that means until you realize that the enemy has constant vision of your Agent. Or that he can just attack him from wherever he wants. Oh, and it would have been helpful to know that "Syncro-something" status effect prevents your Agent from shooting BEFORE you find yourself under fire.

  • Research screen for spending metapoints

OK, now this is interesting :lemo: . Although the prototype stims seems like kind of a waste of time, IMO. Why exactly would I carry around something that only has a 50% of doing what I want it to do AND cause one point of damage at the end exactly? Especially when inventory space is now limited?

  • Alarm now has several shorter stages instead of one big one.

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!! :mad-new: :mad-new: :mad-new:

 

OK, I kind of need to vent on this one: please, please, PLEASE, CHANGE the way that the cameras pop in, because the way they work right now is really frustrating. It's really annoying to have your run go completely down the drain because a camera suddenly pops out of nowhere, spots one of your guys, advances the Tracker by two (once in the enemy turn and ANOTHER when you begin your own turn) and now you're facing one or two of those Elite guys (the ones with 5 HP and armor that NEEDS a crit in order to more than ZERO damage), so you might as well just give up and start a new game. And there's almost no way to avoid this. You can't pre-hack the cameras before they come online and sometimes they're hidden away by walls depending on your own camera angle. Not to mention that they're GRAY, which kind of makes it really easy to not pay attention to them, even if they're in plain sight.

 

Seriously, just give them some kind of a one-turn warmup or something. Just ANYTHING that allows the player to react to it before getting seriously screwed.

  • Peeking uses 1 MP

I don't know, are you sure players won't kind of feel forced to rush more in a careless fashion after this change? :indecisiveness:

  • More guard icons

Yeah, those were nice, although the whole "Guards will have orders to shoot on sight" in the Tracker info is a bit misleading, since they seem perfectly happy with shooting your guys regardless of the Alarm level.

  • Shocktraps can be disarmed

CRAP! Knowing that could have saved me a lot of trouble in my last run :fatigue: .

  • Combat panel condensed

That was a really welcomed change... although there's still a lot of frustration on accidentally shooting people when I'm just trying to move or select a character. Or shooting the wrong enemy if they're sharing the same square. I REALLY wish I didn't have to waste my action shooting a guy on the ground when I'm a lot more concerned with his buddy that's up and about and about to shoot me in the face, thank you :hororr: .

  • Ammo counter moved above inventory item
  • Exploration Bonus added.

Those area actually pretty nice too, thank you :loyal: .



#3 jamesl

    jamesl
  • Technical Designer


  • 74 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:20 PM

Great feedback!

 

Agreed on your first point, what the Psi guys actually do and how that is displayed is very much going to be improved as we move forward. 

 

Content in the Research Screen is pretty rough right now in terms of balance -- some of it might feel a bit strong while others will seem a bit weak. I agree on the Stim prototype, that'll probably see some balancing either in Credits Cost or removing the randomness. 

 

Cameras popping in are pretty annoying right now! We are in the works of making an interim stage where they don't see you yet but can be hacked. 



#4 nomotog

    nomotog
  • Member

  • 31 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:27 PM

I was going to comment about the way the extra cameras actvate too. I was stuck in a room with two of them when they came on. Really unfun.



#5 Tripas

    Tripas
  • Member

  • 59 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 05:27 PM

Great feedback!

 

Agreed on your first point, what the Psi guys actually do and how that is displayed is very much going to be improved as we move forward. 

 

Content in the Research Screen is pretty rough right now in terms of balance -- some of it might feel a bit strong while others will seem a bit weak. I agree on the Stim prototype, that'll probably see some balancing either in Credits Cost or removing the randomness. 

 

Cameras popping in are pretty annoying right now! We are in the works of making an interim stage where they don't see you yet but can be hacked. 

 

 

Alright, glad to hear it :livid: .


Edited by Tripas, 12 February 2014 - 05:28 PM.


#6 sirmentlegen

    sirmentlegen
  • Senior Citizen



  • 2884 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

Once again you lock the all the teams.
"One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic."
-Joseph Stalin

Unofficial Bacon Lord of the forum.

#7 HolyDeath

    HolyDeath
  • Member

  • 73 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

I am surprised you can't activate consoles more than once now. If you have a lot of defense programs on enemy equipment you find yourself out of CPU pretty fast. I think that limiting the number of defense programs could help, because we already have to spend CPUs on non-defended ones.



#8 SleeperService

    SleeperService
  • Junior Member

  • 1 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:06 PM

In general I really am enjoying Invisible Inc/Incognita, and wanted to mention that I was really generally impressed with the new push. Two things really stick out:

In the first, I'm really glad of the peek change. since before spamming peek had no penalty, it was always wrong not to do so- and that was pretty unfortunate since it slowed gameplay down so much.

In the second, I'm not sure if you're hunting for bugs but I just had the game loop on me. During enemy activity a guard, in line of sight of a downed agent, but not the active one, started using his 'peek' aoe look over and over, and since there doesn't seem to be a cap on him doing it, the game got stuck in a loop. 



#9 dianetics

    dianetics
  • Junior Member

  • 23 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:55 PM

I wanted to leave a few impressions of the new patch.

More specifically, I want to address the change to peek. How peek was implemented previously may not have been the best idea, however charging an MP to use peek is excessive. This single change affects flow and balance significantly.

As new systems have been added the game has become more and more stratregic and this I like. However, the peek issue was minor stacked against other glaring issues. Namely things like level generation, unlucky spawns of obstacles/sound bugs/cameras/consoles.

Characters like the robot already have such a tiny area of movement that charging an MP to use something SO VITAL is not fair or balanced.

Peek is an ability that we essentially are forced into using every turn multiple times otherwise we risk death or serious injury, As unforgiving as the game already is we are now forced with hard choices like peek through the door or just open it. There is no penalty for opening/closing doors but there is for peek? Honestly, opening/closing a door should cost an MP not peek.

I will spend a few more hours with this build, but I do not think I will continue to play until the next update.

I will think and stew a bit over the other changes, but so far for this build I feel only negative feelings. Honestly, it feels like a step backward.



#10 BirdofPrey

    BirdofPrey
  • Junior Member

  • 23 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:18 PM

Oftentimes I feel the robot plain needs more MP

 

I like the new escalating alarm, though I don't think every level has to be 5 apart.  I'd actually go for a curve where the first one takes a bit to get to but each subsequent one takes fewer to get to.  The cameras are an interesting change, though you could also add other stuff like sound bugs and laser fences.  I wish I could disable the cameras before they came on.  Maybe make it so an inactive system can be disabled before it activates so it will never activate., but once it does, it can see you and must be hacked.

 

As for the psy cops, they need a bit more limits.  I had my stealth guy get pegged by one and it resulted in him getting consistently knocked out every other turn.  They really should lose that psychic link after the first or second time one of them loses consciousness.

 

I am not sure how I feel about cpu no longer regenerating.  Needs more testing.  I can't say it's too detrimental yet with how generous you seem to be with CPU (and the fact I tend to race the ICE rather than burning CPU), but I can't say it improve much other than the fact it does keep your agents moving which is a good thing.  On a side note, the laptop needs to be a bit more clear.  I got one for the first time today and laid it out and spent 2 turns waiting for an option to interface it till I gave up and picked it up again only for 2 CPU to get deposited to my account.  Not intuitive at all when it says "Just like a console"

 

I am similarly unsure about the mp cost to peek.  Not peeking is the best way to get into trouble, so it seems like an MP sink, and, again the bot has trouble with this since he has so few MP to start which is further cut down by the requirement to sneak everywhere in some cases.

 

 

On a side note given the context, I think the word you want is Psi corps rather than Psi Core

===

edit: on a side note, is CPU generation level across the board or does it change based on corp?  I am thinking the one with the robots needs more CPU since the bots take 3 to disable which is the only way the stealth guy can take care of them, plus there's sound bugs everywhere and tons of defensive daemons constantly burning CPU whereas the other two don't burn your CPU near as much.


Edited by BirdofPrey, 13 February 2014 - 11:24 PM.


#11 Alteffor

    Alteffor
  • Junior Member

  • 1 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:55 AM

Hey, I'm pretty new so maybe this is a concern that I just need advice on but at one point a guards literally just sat in the doorway (blocking my pathing) after linking Dr. Peddler. He did not chase him, every turn he just use synaptic scramble which took away my AP. I could not attack him or overwatch, nor could I find any way of removing the link.

 

Also, am I crazy or is there no level up option yet? It says I'm levelling up and to check the agents bar but I don't see an option for it at all.

 

Sorry if these are two noob questions, just wanted to know.



#12 Tripas

    Tripas
  • Member

  • 59 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:58 AM

Once again you lock the all the teams.

 

That reminds me, is it possible that you could SERIOUSLY lower the cost requirements or just outright make them free while we're in the Alpha? Because it's really hard to test out some of this stuff when you have to play for so long to unlock it AND each new monthly update completely wipes the slate clean so you have to start all over again.

 

I mean, I'd love to give my impression on whatever changes the other two teams have gotten since the last update or how some of the upgrades affect the game, but it just takes so long to get there and it's kind of hard to work the motivation to grind away when I know that everything will be gone in a month's time.


Edited by Tripas, 14 February 2014 - 07:59 AM.


#13 JonathanEpp

    JonathanEpp
  • Member

  • 44 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:02 AM

Peek is an ability that we essentially are forced into using every turn multiple times otherwise we risk death or serious injury

 

Haven't had a chance to play yet, but this is my concern as well. The game already heavily penalizes careful play, which seems at cross purposes with a both a strategy and stealth game. I don't think we need any more penalties for trying to plan ahead. I already found peek a little frustrating when it was free, because sometimes I'd want to peek around a corner I was facing, but instead I'd turn around peek back through the door I just walked through. This would be doubly frustrating if it burned a MP point at the same time.

 

Also, am I crazy or is there no level up option yet? It says I'm levelling up and to check the agents bar but I don't see an option for it at all.

 

This confused me at first as well. It doesn't show up in any of the character information on the left hand side of the screen, which is the first place I looked. When a character levels up, a little "+" sign appears on the left hand side of the info that hovers directly above the actual character, if that makes sense.

 

That reminds me, is it possible that you could SERIOUSLY lower the cost requirements or just outright make them free while we're in the Alpha? Because it's really hard to test out some of this stuff when you have to play for so long to unlock it AND each new monthly update completely wipes the slate clean so you have to start all over again.

 

I mean, I'd love to give my impression on whatever changes the other two teams have gotten since the last update or how some of the upgrades affect the game, but it just takes so long to get there and it's kind of hard to work the motivation to grind away when I know that everything will be gone in a month's time.

 

This is a really good point. It makes sense to lock it down later, but as play testers, we shouldn't have to grind to test these things out.



#14 nomotog

    nomotog
  • Member

  • 31 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:44 AM

The change in peek has been working for me at least. I don't feel the need to peek a lot in my turn. I only peek about 3 times. Maybe more if I am opening more then one door. It dose put weight in to the choice. Some times I will just fling open a door or pop around a condor without checking, but that is generally only if I have a good impression that nothing is waiting for me, or if I'm in danger and really need to get away.  I do think it might be encouraging more reckless actions too. I know I find myself more reckless in this patch. Because of peek and other reasons.

The CUP change is kind of nice in a way. Mostly because now I have assurances of at leas one CPU on every turn. It has caused me to be more liberal with my abilities like ping. With the new way paths are shown, I find ping to be a very very useful ability. You can tell when a guard will walk in on you next turn and well you tend not to have the MP to run or the desire to run. You can basically feint them off with a ping. Some times it fowls up and you sometimes bring someone else to you, but that just takes more pings. To feint them away as well. (You could make it cleaner though. Like replace the arrows with footprints. Maybe swap the colors around. White doesn’t feel like a danger color.)



#15 Bigfoot

    Bigfoot
  • Klei Founder



  • 292 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:52 AM

 

 

Haven't had a chance to play yet, but this is my concern as well. The game already heavily penalizes careful play, which seems at cross purposes with a both a strategy and stealth game. I don't think we need any more penalties for trying to plan ahead. I already found peek a little frustrating when it was free, because sometimes I'd want to peek around a corner I was facing, but instead I'd turn around peek back through the door I just walked through. This would be doubly frustrating if it burned a MP point at the same time.

Please do give us feedback on this as you try it. FYI if you aren't peeking from every possible direction, then that's a bug!

 

From my perspective, using an MP to get more information is in line with the premise of the game -- information is power, and agents need to work to get information. We're also planning on adding more tools to help agents get information, thus reducing the need for peeking every corner.

 

Finally, we could even just go ahead and increase every agent by 1 movement point, which in general would make the whole thing balance out. 

 

Anyway, looking forward to your thoughts!



#16 Bigfoot

    Bigfoot
  • Klei Founder



  • 292 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 11:02 AM

The CUP change is kind of nice in a way. Mostly because now I have assurances of at leas one CPU on every turn. It has caused me to be more liberal with my abilities like ping. 

Glad it's working for you! Yes, we really wanted players to be able to get more CPU so they're never hosed by running out, but we really didn't like parking an agent to keep grabbing CPU. 



#17 the truthseeker

    the truthseeker
  • I believe in Chester Day

  • 2576 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:01 PM

That reminds me, is it possible that you could SERIOUSLY lower the cost requirements or just outright make them free while we're in the Alpha? Because it's really hard to test out some of this stuff when you have to play for so long to unlock it AND each new monthly update completely wipes the slate clean so you have to start all over again.

 

I mean, I'd love to give my impression on whatever changes the other two teams have gotten since the last update or how some of the upgrades affect the game, but it just takes so long to get there and it's kind of hard to work the motivation to grind away when I know that everything will be gone in a month's time.

I always assumed we start over with a new build and wipe for a new start, but could be wrong on this. 


I AM,
--the truthseeker

I Believe in Chester Day


#18 JonathanEpp

    JonathanEpp
  • Member

  • 44 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

Please do give us feedback on this as you try it. 

 

Will do. I know I've been wrong with my first impressions before. Really itching to give this patch a shot, but haven't had the chance so vicariously living through the comments. :p

 

From my perspective, using an MP to get more information is in line with the premise of the game -- information is power, and agents need to work to get information. We're also planning on adding more tools to help agents get information, thus reducing the need for peeking every corner.

 

Finally, we could even just go ahead and increase every agent by 1 movement point, which in general would make the whole thing balance out. 

 

Agree on this first part, in terms of the importance of information in this game. One of the interesting differences between this and Mark of the Ninja, is that the latter (although played in real time) is essentially a "perfect information" game. You can pretty much always pre-plan your moves and thus you feel like you own your failures. Invisible Inc on the other hand relies on hidden information and to some degree unpredictability to give the game tension.

 

Not sure I necessarily follow or agree on the second part. Making somebody pay to do something, even if you give them the currency to do so has a different psychological impact on how they chose and experience their actions, than if you let them do it at no cost. But as you noted, I'll have to play to see what that impact is. Part of the struggle of being an objective tester is that we're going into this experience knowing it used to be free. That's not something that's going to effect the players who buy this game for the first time once it's available, which is your ultimate target audience.



#19 Bigfoot

    Bigfoot
  • Klei Founder



  • 292 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:04 PM

Not sure I necessarily follow or agree on the second part. Making somebody pay to do something, even if you give them the currency to do so has a different psychological impact on how they chose and experience their actions, than if you let them do it at no cost.

Totally agree. What I mean is, if players found they now can't move enough because it's used up by peeking, then that may indeed be a balance issue. It's definitely intentional to have players feel like they are working for the extra information (psychological cost).



#20 nomotog

    nomotog
  • Member

  • 31 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:33 PM

You could attach the peek cost to something other then moving. Like give it it's own resource or have it share the green action with shooting and hacking.