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Found 12 results

  1. I've had this problem awhile and have no idea how to solve it! So each pipe coming out of the natural gas generators is pumping out 250 Co2 The problem i have is one of them isn't working (2nd one on the left) I've had a similar issue with hydrogen or just general moving of gasses using multiple gas pumps For some reason the 2 on the right are sharing a pipe and having no issue, BUT when i try to combine the 3 lines one of them stops working The gas line heading out of the screen on the bottom only has packets of gas around 250, when i know it can handle up to 1,000 Anyone have a resolution for this ? You can see i tried to solve it by pumping all three into a valve and set it to send out 1,000 but that doesn't work either so here we are
  2. All gasses in the game should be evenly distributed throughout all tiles (except vacuum), with trace amounts not displayed to the player. I'm not sure how this would be done from a coding perspective, but maybe have each tile "layered" with gasses at different concentrations? I'm assuming it's set up the way it is right now because of simplicity and performance reasons. For example, with a room with equal amounts of O2 and CO2 and with 3 rows of tiles: Row 1: 23% O, 5% C Row 2: 12% O, 12% C Row 3: 5% O, 23% C ^^ this is just a rough example. Exact amounts would probably be some kind of physics equation with molecular weight involved. Basically, there shouldn't be a square of Gas 1 completely separate from an adjacent square of Gas 2. Instead of suffocating the way dupes currently do, they would always be breathing in whatever gas they're in. You would have to look up actual medical data as to the effects, but breathing in different concentrations of gas would have different stress and health effects on the Dupes. 100% oxygen would actually be deadly, I believe. Dupes will eventually fall unconscious in high CO2 concentration and then die sometime later (based on Athletics maybe?). Stuff like Chlorine gas would continuously deal damage based on concentration. This would also open up more research opportunities such as personal respirators that filter out toxic gasses, and also the opportunity to make gas tanks to store gas for breathing. Pollutants is a bit more confusing because of how vague it is. Pollutants should be independent of gas/liquid and float around as modifiers to whatever it's in. Water moisture could also be implemented in a similar way in how pollutants behave. As a resource to developers, NASA has some data that might be helpful for equations/calculations in regard to breathing in different gas concentrations. https://history.nasa.gov/conghand/mannedev.htm
  3. So I've been playing only the last 3 days. I've watched all the streams on twitch, except the art stream, and had a few ideas. Since Stinky farts a lot on the manual generator, I was thinking why not have methane in the game and maybe have a way to filter it and store it for a methane gas generator? It would be nice to have gas storage tanks for things like hydrogen. I've noticed that the hydrogen in the pipes doesn't stack or line up like water in the pipes where it will just sit there and wait until something needs it. I noticed that the hydrogen stacks to 4-5 and then disappears and won't stack in the pipe any more. It would be nice if there was a storage tank I could build next to the hydrogen generator to store hydrogen when I've turned off the generator. But methane would be funny to have in the game since you already have farting morbs. I don't remember if the hatches fart. But you have farting Duplicants so why not have a way to filter out methane and use it for something? Even if you used it to cook food with or maybe if you could craft it into a methane bomb to blow up or ignite other gasses for quick digging. Oh! Then if some Duplicants had gas detonation skills, that would be cool.
  4. I'm having a really hard time figuring out what "stifled" actually means. I have plants that are at the right temperature AND pressure and they still constantly "stifle". I even tried spacing them further apart and it had no effect. So far as I can tell, the plants don't care what gas they are in, but maybe they do? Any help is greatly appreciated.
  5. A few additions related to air flow that I think would add huge value to the game: some kind of fan to control how gases move within a space - could be used to clear contaminated air, push CO2 towards a scrubber etc. one way/specific gas-permeable tiles - for example, tiles that allow free movement of oxygen while limiting hydrogen to a one-directional flow would be a game changer
  6. I pump up my Food Box Room with Carbondioxide at 1000g atmosphere. as time goes by 30 cycles later, CO2 dissipate ? only in Food Room ? at first I thought CO2 has just leak out, But that's 56kg carbondioxide. It shouldn't has 120g inside and 430g outside. Though other area has normal CO2 atmosphere ... very normal to the point of contamination.
  7. Long story short, i tried to liquify gases to store them the very way it pleases me, and the output pipes of the thermocoolers kept on taking freezing damage and breaking because the gas i was working on froze into the gas pipes. Do you guys know any proper way to do this?
  8. Hello everyone, Here's my design to store unwanted gases (or you could make a bank out of a wanted gas in case you need it for further use), it is applicable to ANY gas as of right now. Witness the power of pipe deconstruction! Cycle 111 : approx. 16kg Chlorine stored (you can see that the chlorine all around will be stored) Cycle 113 : approx. 56kg Chlorine stored, 20 tiles worth of a gas can be stored each cycle. The idea behind it is really basic; 1 - Use pumps + filters to pipe your gas to a vent in a staircase fashion. 2 - Wait for the vent to overpressure and the pipes to fill each with 1kg of the desired gas. 3 - Deconstruct the filled pipes and reconstruct them afterward. 4 - Repeat from step 2. What do you guys think of it? NB : You might want to use greater distances than I did between start of staircase and filters as it will interrupt the flow of other gas storages otherwise when it's (quickly) full. EDIT : You obviously can make the staircase as long as you want to deconstruct/reconstruct less often, but that kinda go against the point of storing great quantities of gas in a small space.
  9. TL;DR Implement Pressure Field by adding contamination level (CL) as a property to fluids and using the Ideal Gas Law Implement Fluid Dynamics by using conservation of momentum equations along with the added Pressure Field Implement Mass Transport by using the Fluid Dynamics and CL property This gives us: No more cells of miniscule amount of material (i.e. 10g of contaminated O2 sitting in a cell surrounded by cells of 1000g O2) Less weird water physics (contaminated water falls into body of clean water, weird splash physics) Allows for system where you can transport dug solids (i.e. copper ore, dirt, etc.) via the liquid piping system Proper diffusion of gases (CO2 and O2 will behave more realistically) No more gas pump not in air (since the vacuum created by the pump should draw surrounding gas in more sharply) So after giving it some thought, I think I may have a solution to the problem of sweeping, and the apparent (at least on this forum) problem of the fluid dynamics being unintuitive (fluids not mixing, strange physics). It is not a clean solution by any means, but seeing as the game is still alpha, implementing this may make changes much easier in the future. Fair warning: there is pretty heavy math/physics in this solution. In this post, the term fluids refers to both gases and liquids Problem Sweeping is annoying, generally boring, and takes up a lot of time. Currently, the game is a race to pseudo-equilibrium before you run out of vital resources. The most common problems are that you run out of water, you run out of electricity fuel, and you run out of sand. Sweeping takes up time that you could be using to build up your base, and this delays the point at which you reach a pseudo-equilibrium base. Fluid mixing is not intuitive. When polluted water enters a body of clean water (or vice-versa), you get a very weird splashing dynamic where the liquid can rise unexpectedly. Additionally, the fact that each cell is finite means that fluids not being able to mix leaves you with weird pockets of gas where you have an extremely small quantity of one gas, surrounded by large quantities of the continuum gas (i.e. <100g of contaminated oxygen surrounded by blocks of 1000g of clean oxygen) Fluid diffusion is not intuitive. It is fairly well known that fluids tend to travel from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure, but this is not the exact case with ONI. This flaw is most obvious with the gas pumps, where there should be a sharp decrease in gas pressure in the vicinity of the pump, causing other gases to flow towards it. Currently I don't believe this is how it works, although I haven't quite tested this empirically. Proposed Solution As mentioned in another post, I think that ONI already uses some kind of finite element analysis (FEA) in order to simulate its fluid and heat dynamics. It makes sense, as ONI is already split into finite elements (the cells). This makes it very easy to implement a simple FEA system to take care of the fluid/heat dynamics. However, FEA can be computationally demanding. This solution will likely increase the processing demand of the game, but will include some potential simplifications for reducing this load. Pressure The first thing that needs to be done (if it isn't already) is to implement a pressure system and overlay, at least for gases. The implementation of this would allow players to easily predict how gases in their base will flow, as right now it is somewhat of a mystery (O2 rises and CO2 falls generally, but not always). For this, we can actually just ignore a lot of the fluid dynamics and just use the Ideal Gas Law: PV = nRT This implementation is actually quite simple, but robust for our purposes. The volume of each cell is already fixed, so V is actually a constant here. R is the gas constant, which is also fixed (and can be tuned for the purposes of game balance). The only variables left to calculate the pressure of a cell are n, which is the moles of gas, and T, which is the temperature of the cell. Utilizing n actually benefits us a lot, because it solves some of the problems with fluid mixing. For the purposes of ONI, we can say that polluted oxygen is actually clean oxygen, with some contaminant solute mixed in. While you can use CO2 as a "contaminant", this would greatly complicate the problem. It would be much easier to say that the contaminant is slime, or something similar. While it doesn't really make sense that gas is going to carry a solid solute, it doesn't really break the immersion of the game and so we can use this as an easy solution. By doing this, we can now utilize the gas and solute density to calculate a realistic-feeling gas pressure. To do this, we need to introduce a contamination level parameter, which can be measured as a percentage (i.e. this cell of oxygen is 40% contaminated). This affords us several benefits: Currently, having a drop of contaminated water enter a pool of clean water creates this tiny little cell of contaminated water, which feels unintuitive. If you put one drop of sewage into a swimming pool, it doesn't stay put. It spreads. By using a contamination level, mass diffusion will become much easier to do later, and it makes the game more intuitive. With the temperature update, buildings take damage when you feed them the wrong fluid. However, this doesn't make much sense: again, if you have a single drop of contaminated water enter a large body of clean water and then pump it to your shower, the shower shouldn't break from that one drop of contaminated water. It would make much more sense that the shower takes damage proportional to the contamination level of the water you're pumping in (i.e. 10% contamination deals a very small amount of damage, 80% almost breaks it). To prevent the continuous breaking problem (as can be observed right now with coal generators overheating), you can set a minimum threshold of contamination for the building to take damage (i.e. <5% contamination deals no damage to buildings). So now that we have a contamination level parameter, we can calculate the pressure of the gas. The moles of gas in the cell is then calculated by finding the moles of gas and the moles of the solute, and then adding them together: n (total) = m(gas)/MM(gas) + m(gas)*CL/MM(contaminant) Where n is the total moles of material in the cell, m is the mass, CL is the contamination level expressed as a number (i.e. 0.4 for 40%), and MM is the molar mass of the material. To simplify this further, you could just say that the CL directly increases the moles by a certain number. Utilizing T also benefits us, as it makes sense for a heated gas to exert more pressure on its surroundings. It could be very useful, for example, to heat the area around your gas outlets so that they diffuse faster (due to the larger gas pressure created in the vicinity). With these two paramters, you can then calculate the gas pressure as: P = nRT/V This leads us to the next part: the Navier-Stokes Equations Fluid Diffusion (Mass Transport) This section is going to be pretty heavy on the math/physics, but all of it would be back end, so really no one has to deal with it (except the devs). It involves the following differential equations: Fick's 1st and 2nd Laws of Diffusion The Navier-Stokes Equations When combined, these equations allow us to model the fluid and solute flow fields. Normally, this requires quite intensive computing power since even simplifying the PDEs to ODEs doesn't always make them solvable. However, by using scaling analysis, you can simplify the problems to a couple of tunable constants and a system of 2D-ODEs. This makes the system much easier to solve, although it is still somewhat intensive. I'm going to skip the math on this one (I could explain but it would make this much longer than it needs to be and doesn't really add anything except math), but I'm going to summarize what these equations will give us: Tunable dimensionless parameters. You can look them up: Da, Pe_M, Re. These parameters are basically what you change to affect the diffusion of solutes and the flow rates. Because changing them does not change the equations themselves, they make it very easy to balance the game numbers-wise. The parameters are calculated based on material constants and certain scenario constants (Reasonably) accurate fluid diffusion. Using the pressure field, in addition to the material constants, gas can now be modeled to flow more realistically. Using this method, you should not longer have cells that have miniscule masses that last for very long; a cell of 1000g of oxygen beside a cell of 10g of oxygen should now diffuse very quickly to evenly distribute the gases. (Reasonably) accurate mass transport. Using our newly found fluid flow model, you can add Fick's Laws of Diffusion to properly diffuse contamination. 1 drop of contaminated liquid should now properly diffuse through a body of clean water. Likewise, contaminated oxygen should diffuse itself throughout the air system. You could allow different kinds of gases to mix in this way; you would just have to combine their partial pressures to factor that into the pressure field, and then the Navier-Stokes equation automatically accounts for fluid weights through its gravity term. This means that gases should properly rise and fall as needed. For implementation, there are several things that would have to be done to simplify the math. First, you want to treat all of the fluids as incompressible. This removes an entire term from some of the equations and often simplifies them significantly. Secondly, you want to make sure that you have no slip boundaries between the fluids and solids in the game. This means that any wall or undug tile does not move with the fluid; it stays put, and the fluid acts accordingly. So now we have the math and physics, it's time to move onto the last part: Finite Element Analysis Finite Element Analysis So now we have equations that describe the flux of material between cells. All that's left to do is calculate this for every cell. Yup, as you guessed that is a metric f***-ton of math. But, such is the cost of having a realistic simulation. Of course, Klei doesn't have to go the full 9 yards with this, but solving their systems first in COMSOL might give them better insight into how their systems should behave, so that they can find ways to make their systems act more realistically. Sweeping So you might be thinking, "but enhander, how does this solve sweeping problems?". Well, once we have mass transport in fluids, it isn't too far of a stretch to allow our mined materials to be solubilized in water. In this way, we could potentially transport materials through our already-existing piping systems. Conclusion By adding these fluid dynamic models, we can solve a lot of the problems with unrealistic and unintuitive gas and liquid behavior. It also gives us a way to deal with sweeping which can be an issue when you are trying to explore.
  10. Gas Pumps currently only suck air from 1 tile and stop when that tiles in a vacuum and then operate again. however, they suck in around 100g of air before it turns back in a vacuum. What if instead, they suck air from 25 tiles. like a huge cube but the closest ones the strongest and the furthest one the weakest. maybe the closest one keep sucking 100g/s and the furthest one 10g/s because otherwise gas pumps in my opinion are just useless especially if the air spreads around. you are forced to build more gas pumps and waste more energy.
  11. It would be quite convenient to be able to set a pressure threshold for (mainly gas) pumps in a similar way of the manual generator with batteries (AKA Hamster wheel). The idea is the pump would STOP pumping when the pressure is below that threshold in order to avoid vacuum chambers (instead of manually disabling the pump through a switch or the pump itself). Maybe the pressure system is not adequate for this exact purpose but it could work by averaging the fluid weight in the area sucked by pumps; for instance "Pump as long as the average weight is over 666g/tile in close vicinity". What do you think about this, would it cost a lot of time? is that even a good idea?
  12. Alright, so I have a simple setup where I have my compost behind 2 airlock doors, and each of those airlocked areas has a pump in them to pump out the Contaminated Oxygen (well, any gas) into an area I'm not using. The area I'm piping it into is under 1kg of gas per tile, meanwhile the area I'm pumping it from has over 4kg of contaminated oxygen... It says the vent is overpressurized, so I put another vent in that area but it's still over pressurized. Am I doing something particularly wrong here, or is this just alpha game mechanics? Because I feel like 4KG of gas per cubic meter would flow through to the area of 1kg per cubic meter without me even actually pumping it if it were real life. The "inbetween" chamber has pretty much no gas in it, an incredibly low pressure, so that seems to be working. They're both outputting at the same area. PS. The area I'm pumping it to is quite large, at least 200 tiles, probably. And how is this single compost producing that much, anyway ._. EDIT: I'm an idiot, there's 4000mg, not g.