New Research Plan

[Kevin]

Here's what I'm planning to replace the current research grind with:

Research points are removed entirely. The Science machines stay, but are used to build prototypes of the currently unlockable recipes. You build a prototype at the machine the same way you currently unlock a recipe - but it costs 2x (3x? character dependent?) the usual cost. Once you've built a prototype, the recipe is unlocked for that world, and you can build the recipe anywhere at the normal cost. Unlocked recipes no longer carry between worlds.

Pros:

• Much quicker unlocking. Some of the high-tier items take waaaay to long now.
• Reduced grind - there is an increased cost to build the prototype, but it isn't arbitrary like RP.
• Removes the RP-induced behaviour distortion - people won't do repetitive, boring things to increase that number.
• You get to make your research decisions with every play - kind of like in an RTS. It becomes a tech tree, not a checklist.

Cons:

• Some players who have earned a lot of research points already may be disappointed. I'm sorry for this, but you have been warned. This is a beta, after all
• Less sense of progression between plays. I'm OK with this. The real progression in the game should be mental. I want you to *learn* between plays and do better.

So why am I doing this? I want to kill grind. The game isn't supposed to be about collecting unlocks. It is supposed to be about making interesting decisions with the tools that you have at your disposal. There needs to be a bit of a progression in there so as to not overwhelm new players, or I would probably just give you everything at the start.

Once RP is fixed, I'm going to try to figure out what to do about XP - the last remaining arbitrary grind in the game. I think it's less bad, but it's still not great as-is. Having to die to get your XP is a drag, at the very least.

Thoughts?

[GDK]

Me gusta.

Also will there still be the alchemy engine? (which will reduce the amount of ingredients).

Characters are already different enough no need to do a characters differenciation for research (even though willson could need less since he is a scientist).

For XP, i think it is ok, since that only unlocks characters and there are only 4 of them for now.
But if XP has somehow another use in the future then maybe changing it would be cool.

Also totally removing XP to unlock character and do certain action instead could be cool too.

[Kevin]

I would leave the tiers as they are now. So you would need the alchemy machine to build tier 2 prototypes.

The next unlockable character will probably have a bonus while researching... or maybe even not need to research. She's really smart.

[GDK]

No need for research is pretty OP.

Well so is surviving in the dark but whatever.

[Toaster Fu]

Well I only had 24,000… Still looks awesome.

[Enjou]

I like the recipes not carrying between worlds - it makes starting a new world actually meaningful.

As to the prototype system, I think it's better but I would like to suggest an alternative that's sort of a hybrid of the current SP system and yours.

Science is about understanding how the world around you works, therefore...

1. Feeding something into the science machine or alchemy engine would increase your understanding of that object - if you feed a log into the science machine then your understanding of logs increases, if you feed honey into the science machine your understanding of honey will increase, etc. Some objects may be generic, like feeding food objects in might add to the understanding of a generic category called food, with different food objects having different values.
2. Understanding would come in tiers, where the lowest tier is not understanding the object at all and the highest tier being complete understanding. Let's say for example there are four tiers - 0 through 3. The science machine would only be able to unlock tiers 1 and 2, so you'd need an alchemy engine to unlock tier 3. It might also be that simple objects don't have all three tiers - there's only so much you can learn about logs, for instance.
3. As you gain understanding of an object, progress towards all unlockables that use that object is made. If you put straw into the machine then you make progress towards unlocking everything that uses straw to be unlocked, not just a single item.

Just to give an example of how this might work, let's say I want to unlock a basic farm. Let's say the unlock requirements are a tier 1 understanding of seeds, straw, and manure. Let's also say that straw hats require a tier 1 understanding of straw. As I work to unlock the basic farm, I also get a bonus in that I unlock straw hats.

In terms of grind, I think this system will scale better than the one you proposed as you add more items and unlockables to the game.

[Mr.P]

This new system sounds realy cool because this would made it more important to stay alive because for now i just started grinding stuff and get the a lot of points and then i could just die (what i not do because i hate commiting suicide in a game) also with this sytem its easier to get some items like the turbo farm (still dont have it unlocked) but what i would add is a different way to gather even more gold or at least increase the chance a little bit. (last time i farmed a stone field with about 30 stones and i got about 10 gold what would make resaerching items like the gold tools just blend out useless because i need 8 gold per tool and again 4 when i need a new one what would need a light increased chance of gold drops because not every map spawns with a pig town with a king) But still i like the new system idea because it gives the game a real permadeath what can be frustrating but for me would be more encouraging to stay alive and spend my resources with more care then i do now

[501105]

I love and dislike the concept at the same time. I love the fact that it would kill of all the grind and that you would no longer need to rack up the points to build something. It is logical to think of an idea, make it and than be better at making that item, in that aspect it seems like a very natural way to do things. It would indeed also allow you to decide what you want to make every playtrough and determine your strategy for that survival run.

Now on to the negative aspect and that is the lack of a sense of having achieved anything at all. When you die, you lose all items and also anything you have learned or made. That makes every attempt a fresh survival, but it also makes whatever you do in a attempt to survive completely useless for the next, it kills of any feeling of achieving anything at all once a run has ended. I love the idea that every run is a thing on its own, but I do like to feel that the amazing run before it gave me more then an pad on the back from myself.

Edit: also, how would it work for certain limited resources? If I have to spent most of my gold on a prototype and have little left to make new golden tools for the rest of the game, then that just sucks and takes away a lot of the fun. If researching costs a lot of a rare resource, than what is even the point of researching it?

[DDay]

Kevin I would like to ask when did you guys start using research points I need a date I'm doing something and I'm guessing this will be added the 27?

[Excess]

I'll guess you'll now have to choose which gold tools you want and which you don't. You can't have them all. Either you get a golden axe and regular pickaxe and shovel, or a golden pickaxe and regular... etc.

You won't be able to have all golden tools at the same time, I guess.


What I'm wondering is what use will the stuff from the graves will have?