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Everything posted by Kasuha

  1. The question is, what you consider an exploit. There are some clear cut exploits such as cooling water with pipe bridges or by splashing small amounts of cold water on large bodies of hot water. But there are also some things that feel very exploity that are just how the game works at the moment. For instance, you can send 95 C water and 95 C carbon dioxide to air scrubber and it will still produce polluted water at 40 C. Which you can then use to cool something down before you send it to irrigate your plants because plants don't care about the temperature of water you irrigate them with. I would say that keeping a base cold without exploits is possible in either case, it's just the harder the more strict you're to yourself. Wheezeworts are not exploits, they work as intended and they can remove a lot of heat. If you use them to cool regulators, you get a lot of cooling in controlled fashion. I would say it's not feasible to cool geyser water at the moment, at least not using "pure" approaches (excluding e.g. cooling it down by heat exchange with polluted water from air scrubbers). So if you consider it an exploit to send 95 C water through abyssalite pipes to your plants and showers, then you get things way harder and generally have to work with very limited amounts of water. Not impossible but it may get uncomfortable.
  2. Both can be made using filters. NC valve at the top, NO valve at the bottom. In the NO case you want to set the filter to something that will not come to it. It is also possible to make a contraption where both switch to open and switch to closed state use only limited amount of power, but it's complex and needs to use one element as blocking medium. That one might deserve its own building with two power outlets, one to open, the other to close.
  3. It has greatest heat capacity of all gases. Since both thermal regulator and wheezewort decrease the temperature of processed gas by certain number of degrees, using hydrogen means most removed heat. It has also very low condensation point so it's safe at all interesting temperatures.
  4. That's very interesting find. I know his channel and I love his enthusiasm. Though I think it would help him to get more up to date about how thermal stuff works. I guess he'll get there eventually... And he reads my nick wrong More can give you better temperature difference. Though not too much it seems. For even better results I think it would require multiple stages.
  5. Okay, I don't know if this has been addressed in this hotfix, but in closed testing after introduction of this fix, when a scrubber had too much CO2 in its storage it stopped working and must have been replaced. If this still happens, be careful about the bottle that pops out of the deconstructed scrubber. Based on how you previously used it, it may contain many tons of CO2. Releasing it to the open may ruin your base. I made a short album how you can deal with that bottle if you don't want to just let it sit there forever. It's a bit of an exploit but I think it's fine if it's dealing with a consequence of a bug. Short description is: build a small room around it before opening it, then build a tile over the released gas. Since the gas has nowhere to go, it will be destroyed. http://imgur.com/a/qJKRN
  6. Most efficient heat exchange is directly between water tiles. Put layer of clean water directly on layer of polluted water, you'll get them at near equilibrium temperature in no time. For some reason they stop exchanging heat when they're 1 C apart (e.g. they stop on 39.3 and 40.3 C) but they can get to such state from 80 degrees difference in matter of seconds. Polluted water needs to be at the bottom, or they'll instantly swap places, but it works great for both hot at the bottom and hot at the top.
  7. Even idle dupes won't apply new valve setting if the valve is built "wrong". The "wrong" seems to be "any gas enters the valve before its setting is changed for the first time". Safe approach to build a working valve seems to be: Build the valve and two unconnected pieces of pipe under its inlet and outlet Change setting of the valve, wait until a dupe performs the change Connect pipes under the valve to the rest of the circuit. Probably safe approach to build a non-working valve: Build a circuit with at least a pump and a vent Let the circuit work Deconstruct a piece of a pipe between pump and vent when there's still gas in the pipe Build a valve in the middle Let it work for a while Try to change setting of the valve Similar or the same issues appear there to be with liquid valves.
  8. I was trying to reproduce your results. I also tried to use permeable tiles containing vacuum for insulation as they should not be in contact with anything. To my surprise, permeable tiles above both water masses somehow exchange temperature with them. Not ones below, but in the image you can clearly see the breaking hot ones (made of copper ore) but the ones above cold water masses got colder too. All others did not change their temperature at all. So I guess the experiment has failed but it has revealed yet another peculiarity of the physics engine. I'll retry with abyssalite but just wanted to share the find.
  9. I'll be honest with you, I never used terrariums. Their effect is so pathetic and their resource requirements so outrageous compared to the effect that they don't deserve to be used. They may be bugged or you made some mistake, I can't tell. But I definitely recommend you to discard them and concentrate on better uses for your resources. Scrubbers remove CO2, they don't clean pollutied oxygen. And they're pretty effective. Did you mean deodorizers? Until you get your large scale generation using heavy wire and transformers, you can usually go with a few separated circuits. Power may be constraining but avoiding wasting the power helps a lot. There are many ways to save power, in general just don't let things run when they're not doing something useful. Game's ultimate source of clean water are steam geysers. I have what I would consider pretty large base and I'm still running it off a single geyser. If you like boiling, there are numerous threads explaining how to exploit the tepidizer to boil water for you. But it's not necessary to make a sustainable colony. Maybe they're just badly picked names for alient plant forms. Lack of properties you'd like them to have does not make the game unplayable, they just don't work the way you'd expect them to. But that's so for almost anything about the game. Again, ultimate source of clean water are steam geysers. There's plenty of uses for polluted water, you don't need to waste your sand on it. They already do that. But they do that usually one by one when they're up to pick a new job while other dupes are busy with other tasks and that has the unwanted effects. I can agree with you that the job selection system is not perfect and I also hope it will get some improvements over time. For now, it's in a "good enough to move on" state because there are still major features waiting to be implemented and devs concentrating on polishing details would make these take longer to come. .If you refer to water lost on irrigation ... you don't need to irrigate. Not all your plants at least. Yes, it depends on the map generator how many steam geysers you'll get. Because clean water is the game's ultimate source. But my estimate is that one geyser is still plenty to run a base with fifty duplicants as long as you're careful about your resources. I would suggest you to take a look around the forums and check out what other players have found or invented in the game. Sustainable colony lasting potentially forever is not just possible, it's actually quite easy with some experience with the game mechanics. They're not realistic but they work together well enough.
  10. The slider works as intended but the way it works only makes sense for manual generators. The slider governs "generate duplicant jobs" state, so when batteries fall below the set value (I'm not sure what exact formula is used but only batteries on local circuit apply, not batteries behind transformers) the generator will start producing a job which is either "run on me" for manual generator, or "feed me coal" for coal generator. And when batteries are full, it stops generating that job. It has no effect on generators without a duplicant job and it won't turn the generator off. It's there for other generators because they share the code. And the game is still in development so not all details are polished.
  11. The matter is, when I double-click on a duplicant in jobs, consumables, or vitals list, the time it takes the camera to zoom on the duplicant position is longer than the time it takes the duplicant to escape. Activating Follow Camera would permanently lock the camer on him and show me what he's doing right now, not what he's been doing a while ago. It would be also nice if the "center of screen" position where the follow camera puts the duplicant respected open UI windows. Both Jobs and Consumables menus cover the center of the screen together with the duplicant focused by the camera. Best would be probably if the game figured out the biggest rectangle of the game view not covered by UI windows and put the duplicant at the center of that rectangle.
  12. I tried to make a self-cooling natural gas generator power plant. Each generator produces "20 W" of heat, which after adding proper scaling translates to 4 kW. It also produces 67.5 g/s of polluted water. Adding that 4 kW into the 67.5 g should warm it up by approximately 10 C so assuming the water is produced at constant temperature, the generator should be able to cool itself with its own water production. So I built (and ran) this. So far I consider it a failure, even though nothing overheats - it's just too chaotic and I don't trust it. There are things in the play that I don't understand yet. The top right generator is overheating the most. It certainly doesn't manage to cool itself with its polluted water but when it reached ~123 C for the first time, it changed the water to steam and that somehow cooled it down. Since then there's a mix of polluted water, water, steam, and carbon dioxide I originally filled the room with. Oh and a few tiles of vacuum that formed somehow. Nothing is overheating or breaking but I'm not sure why does it heat up that much, and what does cool it down once it reaches the temperature needed to produce steam from the water. So here you are, have a bit from my experience too. I'll probably try running it for a few more cycles, then I'll decide what I'll do with it.
  13. It didn't work because of bug after AU was released but it should work now. It just needs to be done by a dupe and I assume it inherits priority of the tile so if all dupes are busy doing priority 9 tasks elsewhere, it may take a while. It's also missing a "tinkering" icon so it's not clear that the tile is waiting for something.
  14. You're better off using abyssalite tiles and putting your pipes on the tile right above them. That way the exchange will be directly between the water and the pipe, it won't need to go through additional layer of granite.
  15. If you mean heating water in liquid pipes by water in other liquid pipes or by gas in gas pipes then probably yes. But since that puts two pipes in the way besides the granite, it's going to be very slow and inefficient. The fewer mediators between the heating and heated element the better.
  16. Technically you can create any kind of carbon from CO2. It's literally nothing but carbon and oxygen so once you get them apart you can make anything with them. The only problem is that they're very happy together. Getting them apart costs all the energy that was before acquired by putting them together. And any sort of catalyst or inventive design cannot get over that since that's law of conservation.
  17. Since you're essentially moving the heat from one water body to another, putting them right side by side is definitely the best approach as there's no mediator slowing the heat transfer down. In general, though, either type of water has worse thermal conductivity than granite. Water: 0.609 W/m/K, Polluted water: 0.58 W/m/K, granite: 3.39 W/m/K. So using water filled mesh tile to conduct heat from e.g. one gas on one side to other gas on the other side is worse than using granite tiles. I'm however not very sure about what exact formulas does the game use when calculating heat transfer. The measure of distance in these constants has no clear sense in context of ONI.
  18. You cannot separate polluted water and clean water pools with a mesh tile filled with either type of water. If you can prevent the two waters to mix, you don't have to use the mesh tile, just put water on water.
  19. One more comment to your design: mesh and gas permeable tiles don't conduct heat between neighboring tiles. They're only in contact with the "ambient medium" in them, i.e. the gas or liquid. A gas permeable tile containing vacuum is perfect heat insulator, better than abyssalite. The heat transfer between polluted water and the cooled water in your design is going only through the bridges and whatever gas is left there in the permeable tiles, the material of the tile only acts as thermal mass again. Here's a small experiment I ran, there's vacuum in that permeable tile and the temperatures of water on the left and right didn't change at all. Below is a granite tile separating the two waters and it has already transferred measurable heat between the two. Water on the left had 6.9 C and water on the right had 96.9 C initially. Granite has greater conductivity than any gas you may fill your permeable tile with, so granite tiles are your best choice. Edit: I compared granite tile to gas permeable containing 2 kg of hydrogen and the granite tile won.
  20. Thermal mass has only effect while the temperature is changing. After some time running the machine, things will have constant temperature at each point and the thermal mass will have no effect. Okay, I neglected that. You may be right about it, there doesn't have to be an exploit in your cooler. Though the first stage of cooling then depends a lot on temperature of the polluted water you send in. I'm a bit confused by your pipe radiator though, you seem to be sending already heated water back at the end of first cooling stage where the water is already relatively cold and should be colder than the water in the radiator.
  21. No. The effect just limits the amount of heat that can be transferred per second. It does not affect heat contents or thermal inertia of the medium you use. If you send 1 g packet of hydrogen to the pipe, it will exchange all its heat in first pipe segment and then it will be useless.
  22. Regarding heat conduction along wires/pipes: test chamber with vacuum in debug mode. There was no transfer at all. Wire and liquid pipe is wolframite, gas pipe is granite.
  23. Well the tepidizer on its own is an exploit, and 2400 kg/cycle of water at 30 C from steam requires 1.17 MW of heat removed continuously. That would be almost 38 kW per wheezewort, and that's more than twice their best performance in hydrogen - so I assume cooling runs on some kind of exploit too, even if unintentionally. And if we're ok with using exploits, then it can be made much smaller. Also, the wires in your design do nothing. There's no heat conducted along wires or pipes, except heat carried by contents or surrounding gases/liquids/solids. The wire/pipe bridges do help, though, as they are in contact with environment in all three tiles they cover.
  24. I think the complaint about valves not using power was based on the fact that you can propel liquid or gas in pipes in closed cycle without pumps or filters in the way. It's not fault of valves, though. You can "propel" the contents in pipes using bridges too. Or just by putting a filter output on one end and filter input on the other end, without powering them up. It's because in ONI, the pipe itself propels its contents, and you only pay power to do something with it, such as place it in the pipe, sort some element out, or process it to something else. Powered valve is not realistic but would make sense in that already unrealistic context. Except I'm pretty sure people would complain about powered bridges, so that would have to be implemented differently, by adding a genuine pipe crossing without adding inputs or outputs. That would be a lot of work, it would break a lot of current designs and I believe there's not much point doing that.