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      Rhymes with Play 145 - Oxygen Not Included (Update Preview)   06/27/2017

      Join us on our official Twitch Channel, where we will be previewing content that are currently being developed for the upcoming Oxygen Not Included update. As always, the stream will be going live on Thursday, June 29th at 3:30 PM Pacific (10:30 PM UTC), only on the Rhymes with Play Dev Cast. Note: As the game is still in development, game content shown in the update preview streams may change before going live on Steam Early Access.  Where is it?
      On our official Twitch channel here:
      http://www.twitch.tv/kleientertainment
       
      Times:
      10:30 PM UTC (Coordinated Universal Time)
      6:30 PM ET (East)
      5:30 PM CT (Central)
      4:30 PM MT (Mountain)
       
      When is it?
      Thursday, June 29th 3:30 PM Pacific (10:30 PM UTC). Here's a handy tool to figure out what time that means for you:
      http://www.worldtimebuddy.com Check out the stream announce thread for discussions!

Sevio

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About Sevio

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  1. Except that the inexhaustible supply of water is very hot, which tends to spread into your base if heat destroying exploits (hot water directly into electrolyzers and scrubbers) are not used.
  2. A little bit of rebuilding and I now have a 31-tile countercurrent exchanger running. It's working quite amazingly, clean water exits at ~33 C and polluted water (starting at 26.9C) exits at ~66 C. Running it at lower speed than 1000 g/s I think it could exceed 70 C. Hasn't had much time to run but it reacts reasonably quickly. I had to increase throughput from 1000 g/s to about 1200 g/s to avoid regulator overheating. The bottleneck right now is actually the steam cooling zone, because the output polluted water (and recently-cooled water) are so hot the steam is building up to ridiculous concentrations, 30+ kg. I might have to route steam to several parallel countercurrent exchangers to handle this kind of throughput.
  3. I see, so to do a multi layer version properly you would have to use pumps for each layer where hot water migrates down each layer and cold polluted water migrates up each layer...
  4. I'm surprised this is actually a real thing, I thought the maximum possible transfer would be an equalization of temperature. But apparently a proper length countercurrent exchange according to this article can transfer nearly all heat! The question for me right now is, why did the second layer end up being counterproductive?
  5. More strangeness after testing a second exchanger layout that was also multi-layered. I noticed that the polluted water coming into the lower layers was actually getting cooled down by the clean water as it flowed towards the pump that would take it to the thermoregulators. So I examined the first layer and here's what you see: The water flows from left to right, and the polluted water in the opposite direction. Surprisingly, the water coming out of that first layer is actually cooler than the polluted water! So the other layers are only doing harm by equalizing them back up again somewhat. It looks like a single layer wide heat exchanger may be the best way to optimize heat transfer and even transfer a little bit more than you would normally expect to be able to.
  6. How would being in control of a single dupe work anyway in this game? All the tasks in the game are lumped into one big pile that all dupes take from. You could split building and digging tasks and maybe cooking because those tasks are created directly by a player but almost everything else generates tasks without player intervention. It doesn't really make sense to share control in a colony management sim except by giving each player their own colony to manage on one map.
  7. I would be slightly sad to see this implemented very soon because this water/polluted water heat exchanger that came out of some thermodynamic experimentation in another thread would no longer work. But only just slightly. I fully support this idea.
  8. Have to agree with @Whispershade here and add that for me, the big fun about ONI was (and still is) discovering how to better manage and plan my colony, discovering how all the different systems work and figuring out good layouts for resource processing. The game has a decent amount of Factorio aspect in it right now and refining and expanding this part will surely get more attention, given all the materials that exist in the game right now that are going unused or can't be produced without tepidizer trickery. But the Don't Starve aspect of the game is still very underdeveloped. I don't just mean food production, but more serious consequences for failing to manage heat, toxic or unbreathable gases and pollution. A seasonal or other longer-term cycle that causes change in the environment around you and forces you to adapt or suffer the consequences. Random events that can shake up the comfortable balance a decently managed colony eventually achieves. This wouldn't necessarily take the form of "dump really bad condition X on the player without warning", but could give you some warning ahead of time so you can prepare for it. And as previously announced, discovery of the the game's background and lore.
  9. I've been working on The First Law Mk3 based on the recent findings above, using a heat exchanger design that flows polluted and clean water over each other to maximize heat transfer. A preview: I added some iron wire bridges for good measure to help it along. The heat transfer works amazingly quickly, however the sandstone tiles in the exchanger and the two full squares of polluted water the pump sits in make for a huge heat capacity, so it heats up very slowly. I tried to speed it up by editing in some hotter polluted water but it's still in the process of evening out. The layout is a bit odd due to the space from the previous design I had to work with and the polluted water seems to be going through some cooling phases at certain points as well but that is probably due to opposite flows and the lower tiles of the exchanger still heating up. Even now, it's already processing 1023 g/s of polluted water at 2 kW of thermoregulator power and heating that up to a little over 100C. It might be able to go up a little higher when the exchanger evens out. Edit: The highlighted pipe doesn't contain the full 1023 g/s but that's because the second valve is set one notch higher than the input valve, and it happens to be the last packet in a batch from the exchanger pump. I'll likely redo the exchanger with a bit less sandstone tiles and without the polluted water pool that the pump sits in so it reacts quicker - At this size it's probably quite overkill for the throughput it's handling.
  10. It helps to have separate worlds, if I end up accidentally insta-building something in a survival game because I did some debug testing before, I usually just reload from save and disable instabuild mode before continuing. I haven't had any worse incidents than that.
  11. @Kasuha That is excellent news, and so simple, too! The equalization seems to be very powerful with just a couple tiles of exchanger space too. Edit: Fortunately I don't have to be the dupe that drinks this or showers under it. Actually, dupes don't seem to need any water for consumption anymore once you get to Sleet Wheat...
  12. Interesting discovery about getting the space heater to make steam! Power wise it's not going to be as efficient as the tepidizer method I'm using though, which works pretty reliable already.
  13. Let's say you have polluted water at the bottom and clean water at the top, both flowing in some direction or another. Can you separate the two flows again? I guess separating the clean water is easy, just let it flow onto a tile and then into a drop. But the only way I could see to separate the bottom flow is to let it accumulate in a basin. and pump it from there, or perhaps let it flow from the bottom layer of a basin under a tile. Flowing clean water on top of polluted water, this sounds like a terrific idea for a water purification plant.
  14. I bit the bullet and decided to upgrade the entire polluted water radiator to wolframite pipes. To my surprise, it made no difference whatsoever to the output temperature. I guess going bigger is the only way to transfer more heat. So I started thinking again of a heat exchanger that exchanges heat directly between water and polluted water, without the use of pipes. (or in addition to pipes) I decided to conduct a little thermal experiment to figure out what materials could transfer heat between water and polluted water most effectively. Two tiles wide of conductive material at exactly 50 C, 2000 kg of 90 C water below and 2000 kg of 10C water above. This will even out over time to two pools of 50 C water and does not change the conductor's temperature, eliminating its thermal mass as a variable in the experiment. Starting conditions below: From left to right (conductivity in parentheses): Granite (3.39), Copper Mechanized Airlock (4.5), Copper Manual Airlock (4.5), Iron Manual Airlock (4), Wolframite Airlock (15). When clicking twice on an airlock one can also see that the underlying material is called Steel Door <DO NOT TRANSLATE> with a conductivity of 54, so I half expected to see all doors show the same rate of heat transfer. To my surprise however, all doors and the granite tiles are showing the exact same rate of heat transfer after several cycles! Here the cool water in all 5 experiments has heated up to exactly 20 C and the hot water has cooled down to exactly 80 C. All doors and tiles are still at 50C. The abyssalite insulated tiles have not changed temperature either. (still exactly 20C) It appears that in the equilibrium state, the conductivity of the intermediate material does not matter at all! This seems like a bug to me. So I then decided to test the Wire Bridge, which are known to transfer heat across tiles pretty well due to being in contact with multiple at once. Again, the same experiment setup. Heat all wire bridges to 50 C, then a pool of cold water at 10 C above, and a pool of hot water at 90 C below. From left to right (conductivity in parentheses): Gold Amalgam (2), Iron Ore (4), Copper Ore (4.5), Wolframite (15) This time the thermal transfer worked a bit faster than before, and there were also differences between the different wire bridges. But again to my surprise, they're not in order of thermal conductivity! End temperature of the cold/hot water from left to right: Gold Amalgam - 14.9 C / 85.2 C Iron Ore - 30 C / 69.8 C Copper Ore - 29.1 C / 70.8 C Wolframite - 24.4 C / 75.8 C I thought maybe somehow it's the specific heat capacity that matters, however the specific heats from left to right are: Gold Amalgam (0.15), Iron Ore (0.449), Copper Ore (0.386), Wolframite (0.134), the results are not in order of specific heat either. The wire bridges themselves also did not stay at 50 C. From left to right: Gold Amalgam (75.9 C), Iron Ore (60.5 C), Copper Ore (60.1 C), Wolframite (50.1 C). Again, the wire bridge temperatures do not correspond to the results of heat transfer rate either. Can anyone make sense of these results? In any case, for a heat exchanger between two fluids, it looks like iron wire bridges are the way to go, rather than the poorly performing wolframite. And it doesn't seem to matter whether you use doors or granite tiles. Edit: It gets weirder still. When comparing the temps of the cold and hot water for each experiment, a small discrepancy has built up. (Hot + cold temperature / 2) should add up to 50 C, but it doesn't. Averages below: Gold Amalgam - 50.05 C (within rounding error margins) Iron Ore - 49.9 C (0.1 C lost) Copper Ore - 49.95 C (within rounding error margins) Wolframite - 50.1 (0.1 C gained) For Gold Amalgam and Copper Ore it looks close enough to just be a rounding error but the discrepancy for Iron Ore and Wolframite seems a bit too large.
  15. Running 250g packets through them makes them 4x as expensive in terms of power per heat transferred. If you're not running them near overheat temperatures, it's better to send them 1/4th the amount of full packets. You can use a packet combiner to combine smaller packets from pumps into larger ones, and also reduce the amount of packets coming through the line: