• Announcements

    • JoeW
    • JanH

      Rhymes with Play 145 - Oxygen Not Included (Update Preview)   06/27/2017

      Join us on our official Twitch Channel, where we will be previewing content that are currently being developed for the upcoming Oxygen Not Included update. As always, the stream will be going live on Thursday, June 29th at 3:30 PM Pacific (10:30 PM UTC), only on the Rhymes with Play Dev Cast. Note: As the game is still in development, game content shown in the update preview streams may change before going live on Steam Early Access.  Where is it?
      On our official Twitch channel here:
      10:30 PM UTC (Coordinated Universal Time)
      6:30 PM ET (East)
      5:30 PM CT (Central)
      4:30 PM MT (Mountain)
      When is it?
      Thursday, June 29th 3:30 PM Pacific (10:30 PM UTC). Here's a handy tool to figure out what time that means for you:
      http://www.worldtimebuddy.com Check out the stream announce thread for discussions!


Registered Users
  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

16 Good

About Coolthulhu

  • Rank
    Junior Member
  1. It isn't really an exploit. How would you define "not exploit" here? How much does the player need to cool the water for it not to appear an exploit? The problem is, you can't really give a good answer here: if you say 70C for electrolyzer, then you'd have to count producing hot hydrogen for hydrogen generators as an exploit too, if you say 40C for scrubber, then feeding a scrubber hot water and reheating polluted water for pinchas would count as an exploit even when the player works against the "exploit". The problem with calling this an exploit is that the only way not to use this exploit is to not use electrolyzers and scrubbers. And it gets worse once you realize that pre-cooling natural gas generators can be used to generate coolant (output is created at generator's temperature), lavatories create polluted water at water temperature but produce more output than take input, plants spawn at 20C and sink a lot of heat and many other such quirks of the engine. You can classify tepidizer overheating as an exploit, because you can clearly define it: if you run a tepidizer that isn't submerged (submersion can be clearly defined, as game uses it already), that's unlike the intended usage. Such clear rules can't be made for scrubber.
  2. This one is pretty cool. Not enough game mechanics use light. Traits: Acrobatic - increases speed of movement animations other than walking and climbing ladders (jumps, climbing tiles etc.) Germaphobic - stressed out by dirty hands and grimy conditions Amphibious (modification of existing trait) - also decreases stress penalties for soggy feet and soaking, possibly to 0 Stress reactions: Panic/outburst - runs around the colony with hands in the air, screaming, causing stress and interrupted jobs (and sleep) in others Heart attack - drops to the ground and loses some health, can become incapacitated if dropped to 0
  3. Polluted water has the highest heat capacity out of all common materials: 6 (J/g)/K. NG generator produces 67.5 g/s of it, so 67.5 g/s * 6 (J/g)/K = 405 (J/s)/K. If I recall correctly, the heat produced by buildings is actually 20 times higher than shown. EDIT: It's 200. This would mean NGG produces 20W*200 = 4000W = 4 kJ/s. So by dropping the temperature of the generator by 10K, you should make it produce polluted water cold enough to offset heat generated by another generator. Plus tip (CO2). Now, it's not comparable to air scrubber deleting up to 250kJ of heat per second (if my math is correct), but it's pretty much free if one generator cools down the others. Looks like it won't force it to change phase. I'd assume same happens to polluted water on the upper end of the temperature range. Could explain Kasuha's design stabilizing - if the temperature is clamped to something below 125C, the polluted water generated by 124.99C generators and dripping on them could be able to (unreliably) cool them down and keep them from overheating.
  4. I decompiled the relevant functions to find out and found something interesting: public static float CalculateEnergyFlow(float source_temp, float source_thermal_conductivity, float dest_temp, float dest_thermal_conductivity, float surface_area = 1f, float thickness = 1f) { return (float) ((double) (source_temp - dest_temp) * (double) Math.Min(source_thermal_conductivity, dest_thermal_conductivity) * ((double) surface_area / (double) thickness)); } Note the Math.Min - if this function is used for tile and object heat transfer (and further sniffing around decompiled code indicated it is), this means that the lowest thermal conductivity is used, NOT the product of both conductivities. This would explain wolframite pipes not helping with transfer over granite (granite already has higher conductivity than water). Still doesn't say much about wire bridge transfer. I think it is caused by those lines: float energyFlow = SimUtil.CalculateEnergyFlow(temperature1, data1.thermalConductivity, temperature2, data1.conduitThermalConductivity, this.contentsSurfaceArea * ConduitTemperatureManager.ContentsScaleFactor, 1f); float delta_kilojoules = SimUtil.ClampEnergyTransfer(dt, temperature1, data1.heatCapacity, temperature2, data1.conduitHeatCapacity, energyFlow); The first one is just an overload of the function I listed above, the second one doesn't decompile cleanly so I won't paste it here, but the important part is that it takes heat capacity of both source and destination into account and multiplies heat transfer by product of both. So it seems that heat transfer depends on heat capacity, which would explain your results, as iron has the highest specific heat, then copper, then wolframite, then gold. This would mean that sandstone and iron ore are the best materials for radiators and heaters, not granite and wolframite. Needs proper experimentation, though.
  5. They do actually prioritize proximity, it's just that they prioritize it individually and only if both jobs have equal priorities. You can see dupes pick the closest job when a dupe does some job that forces relocation (say, digging) then goes for a job with multiple choices (say, sweeping).
  6. I'd rather see them stay less natural, more like artificial creatures. They already act like beings adapted to the space, with ability to hold breath in vacuum, detect oxygen (humans only detect CO2 and inhalation of methane or hydrogen doesn't feel like anything until blackout), hold breath while asleep, extract oxygen from near-vacuum by wheezing forcefully, survive heavy hypothermia and heat stroke and so on. Instead of getting old per se, they could accumulate toxins from the environment. This would give player incentive to detoxify everything. Detoxification could require a lengthy and/or expensive reconvalescence process or just a lot of time spent in non-toxic environment. This would allow keeping "favorite dupes" without forced rotation, make dupe rotation a smart choice for "crude" colonies, and give the incentive to actually produce oxygen instead of keeping everyone spored+stenched.
  7. I wish there was a job "stealing" mechanic: Dupe A can do jobs 1 and 2, dupe B can only do job 1. Dupe B is closer to the job 1 than dupe A. In this case it should be safe to let dupe B do the job 1, even if dupe A reserved it already. Possibly with some idle timer threshold, to prevent casual job theft.
  8. Chilly surroundings depend on gas (or liquid) the dupes are in. 35C water can be chilly, -50C chlorine can be comfortable. That said, it is almost certainly wrong, as the actual complaints do not correspond to the comfort zone display. My sweater-equipped dupes also complain of cold. Possible inverted logic?
  9. Dupes whose diseases time out in the middle of sleep will wake up to "announce" that. Probably interrupts other activities too.
  10. Pretty sure the point was to cool the generator chamber using only its own inputs/outputs and nothing else. You can easily cool down a gas setup by dripping water from scrubber on things. With input of (any temperature) polluted water and (any temperature) clean water you can destroy a ton of heat in a gas/fertilizer/scrubber loop.
  11. Steam cooling things down suggests that your just don't have enough heat exchange from gases. As far as I recall, steam has pretty good conductivity, plus there is that extra layer of clean water to take heat off the generator and share it with the pwater and tiles below it. I wouldn't be too sure about that constant temperature of outputs. My quick peek at the disassembled code seems to indicate that all energy generator outputs are generated using the same code and you can clearly see CO2 being generated at temperature of the generator. Compare to air scrubber, which explicitly sets output temperature at 40C. You could try some aggressive cooling with the input natural gas, but that would more engineering for engineering's sake when you can just use the output of one air scrubber to cool down the entire installation (plus the scrubber), possibly without additional energy costs if you don't drip it but just pipe it in wolframite.
  12. Unless you're still generating oxygen with algae, you don't need to precool the water. Electrolyzer output gases are always at 70C, both with 0C water and 100C water.
  13. Depends on what you feed it to, but in most cases yes. In general, fluids stored in buildings are essentially "out of the game", not in contact with anything. This leads to weird situations where you can have dupes take a shower in 99C water, sleet wheat can be irrigated with 99C water and so on. You shouldn't water sleets though - not because watering is wrong, but because hydroponic farms also create fertilization jobs, which are a waste of time and cold air in case of sleets.
  14. Gas pump "grabs" a tile of gas from one of its tiles. If the pressure is low, each tile gas only a small amount of gas, so it will take a loooong time to pump reasonable quantities of gas. But it can create proper vacuum, which can be useful for avoiding requirements for filters.